Maria, sorry, hon but sometimes it doesn't work like that, like Dorthory said to Toto: "I don't think we are in Kansas anymore!"
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." My soon to be "ex" could not handle our realtionship as my being a crossdresser. Her 84 year old father is retired minister that "fills in" for other ministers when they are not available and she goes with him to various churches. You know how gossip flies: "______ where is your husband?" Well we are getting a divorce, he's a crossdresser you know!" I know she has outted me to three at least congreations!!
I don't care, and it does not bother me in the least. She also outted me to her entire family and to my daughter and son, so in my reality there is no such thing as confidentiality among family, so you have to understand that if you can not accept who you are and someone else wants to make your life miserable - welll welcome to the real world, honey!
Love,
Virginia
PS: I will reiterate, I don't care who knows about me, I am who I am and they can deal with it - not my problem anymore!
Ones interior life.
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
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CJ
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3562
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:12 pm
- Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Hi all,
Maria,
Yeah, I remember that Gilligan's Island episode. What a blast! The premise of "telepathic seeds" is a plot device that could've been adapted and applied to Star Trek, Bewitched, Wonder Woman, or any number of shows and still get its "message" across; namely, that it's preferable to keep parts of the content of our consciousness to ourselves lest mayhem ensue.
There's a problem with that particular plot device, though, when it comes to "real world" issues (and both Virginia and Loretta have addressed it) and that's the fact that free will is taken out of the picture. There's a huge difference, for example, in telling someone you're close to that you're a crossdresser and having that person find out in some other way--a way that doesn't (or didn't) require your assent. When the Howells (and the other castaways on Gilligan's isle) come to crisis as a result of their each knowing "telepathically" what the other thinks or feels, a large part of the problem lies not just in the actual content of their consciousness but in the fact that transparency is forced upon them; they each have no choice but to reveal to the others what they think or feel.
Now, if this were a "real world" issue, it could go in at least two directions: for one, given that everyone can know what you think or how you feel, make damn sure that you only think or feel good things, positive things, so as not to sabotage your relationships with other people. This isn't very realistic; it's just not likely that we'd be able to do so. The other possibility is that we own up to our own thoughts and feelings regarding other people, no matter how dark and unsavoury those thoughts and feelings may be and just deal with the situation by seeing it as a golden opportunity for understanding both ourselves and others. I realize this isn't very realistic either but, of the two options, it's the one I would much prefer for myself. It isn't very realistic because, for whatever reasons (lack of emotional maturity, small-mindedness, spiritual pettiness, an inflated ego, etc.) people often respond--more or less automatically--to "I hate you" by saying "I hate you right back" instead of "why?" or "can we talk about this?" Having said this, it's still the better option. Trying to twist ourselves out of shape in order to not emotionally injure others only injures us in the long run. And an injured person cannot relate well or truly to other people.
I agree with Anita; "hiddenness" (and it's usually a self-injuring hiddenness more than it is an "other-injuring" hiddenness) only hampers intimacy. I guess it comes down to how much we value intimacy with other human beings. If we're of a mindset that we can go through our lives alone, without the incredibly healing power of another's touch or another's love (be that other a friend, a spouse, a family member, or a colleague), then, of course, intimacy will not be an issue. Unfortunately, the need for intimacy still will be an issue. We just won't recognize it as such or we'll have that need met in some other way (in our relationship with a deity, for example).
This forum is a fine example of how such a need can be met. All of us are miles away from each other (sometimes halfway across the world), but we certainly feel the love others have for us and that we have for them precisely because we're open with each other and aren't afraid to reveal our flaws and quirks and darker sides to each other (and, yes, especially to the world at large, that darker side includes the fact that we're men who, for whatever reasons, like to dress as women). Some here have said that the forum has changed their lives. I'm one of those people whose life was changed. Virginia even says it saved her life. I believe it, too. Now, I fully understand that one reason we can be open with each other as much as we are is not so much that we share similar interests (no, not even in the grab bag of transgenderism and gender variance) but that we can do so in a relatively anonymous manner. The stability and security of our "real world" lives aren't seriously threatened in any way as a result of that anonymity. It's an entirely different story when it comes to forsaking our anonymity in our "real world" lives by showing our spouses or friends or family just how imperfect and flawed we truly are. We'd stand to gain (despite the occasional setback) by bringing those we love into the fold of our "trueness." Yet, we resist doing so. Why? Elizabeth summed it up best (and in one word): fear.
We're afraid of being hurt. We're afraid of showing others that we are, after all, just as vulnerable as anyone else who happens to be born on this planet. How cute is that? And I'm tempted to add: how so very male is that? We're not rocks or telephone poles or slabs of concrete; we're people. We're mushy, squishy, finite, and vulnerable. The more we can allow ourselves to be so with other people, the more they'll allow themselves to be so with us; the more we'll all recognize just how tough (and sublime) it is to be a person and be glad for each other's company on this, rather more universal, "Magical Mystery Tour." We have to be open to others in order to do this, though. Especially to those others, in our immediate environment, whom we claim to love--our friends, our SO's, our families.
(Okay, Loretta, fire away!
)
Love,
CJ
Maria,
Yeah, I remember that Gilligan's Island episode. What a blast! The premise of "telepathic seeds" is a plot device that could've been adapted and applied to Star Trek, Bewitched, Wonder Woman, or any number of shows and still get its "message" across; namely, that it's preferable to keep parts of the content of our consciousness to ourselves lest mayhem ensue.
There's a problem with that particular plot device, though, when it comes to "real world" issues (and both Virginia and Loretta have addressed it) and that's the fact that free will is taken out of the picture. There's a huge difference, for example, in telling someone you're close to that you're a crossdresser and having that person find out in some other way--a way that doesn't (or didn't) require your assent. When the Howells (and the other castaways on Gilligan's isle) come to crisis as a result of their each knowing "telepathically" what the other thinks or feels, a large part of the problem lies not just in the actual content of their consciousness but in the fact that transparency is forced upon them; they each have no choice but to reveal to the others what they think or feel.
Now, if this were a "real world" issue, it could go in at least two directions: for one, given that everyone can know what you think or how you feel, make damn sure that you only think or feel good things, positive things, so as not to sabotage your relationships with other people. This isn't very realistic; it's just not likely that we'd be able to do so. The other possibility is that we own up to our own thoughts and feelings regarding other people, no matter how dark and unsavoury those thoughts and feelings may be and just deal with the situation by seeing it as a golden opportunity for understanding both ourselves and others. I realize this isn't very realistic either but, of the two options, it's the one I would much prefer for myself. It isn't very realistic because, for whatever reasons (lack of emotional maturity, small-mindedness, spiritual pettiness, an inflated ego, etc.) people often respond--more or less automatically--to "I hate you" by saying "I hate you right back" instead of "why?" or "can we talk about this?" Having said this, it's still the better option. Trying to twist ourselves out of shape in order to not emotionally injure others only injures us in the long run. And an injured person cannot relate well or truly to other people.
I agree with Anita; "hiddenness" (and it's usually a self-injuring hiddenness more than it is an "other-injuring" hiddenness) only hampers intimacy. I guess it comes down to how much we value intimacy with other human beings. If we're of a mindset that we can go through our lives alone, without the incredibly healing power of another's touch or another's love (be that other a friend, a spouse, a family member, or a colleague), then, of course, intimacy will not be an issue. Unfortunately, the need for intimacy still will be an issue. We just won't recognize it as such or we'll have that need met in some other way (in our relationship with a deity, for example).
This forum is a fine example of how such a need can be met. All of us are miles away from each other (sometimes halfway across the world), but we certainly feel the love others have for us and that we have for them precisely because we're open with each other and aren't afraid to reveal our flaws and quirks and darker sides to each other (and, yes, especially to the world at large, that darker side includes the fact that we're men who, for whatever reasons, like to dress as women). Some here have said that the forum has changed their lives. I'm one of those people whose life was changed. Virginia even says it saved her life. I believe it, too. Now, I fully understand that one reason we can be open with each other as much as we are is not so much that we share similar interests (no, not even in the grab bag of transgenderism and gender variance) but that we can do so in a relatively anonymous manner. The stability and security of our "real world" lives aren't seriously threatened in any way as a result of that anonymity. It's an entirely different story when it comes to forsaking our anonymity in our "real world" lives by showing our spouses or friends or family just how imperfect and flawed we truly are. We'd stand to gain (despite the occasional setback) by bringing those we love into the fold of our "trueness." Yet, we resist doing so. Why? Elizabeth summed it up best (and in one word): fear.
We're afraid of being hurt. We're afraid of showing others that we are, after all, just as vulnerable as anyone else who happens to be born on this planet. How cute is that? And I'm tempted to add: how so very male is that? We're not rocks or telephone poles or slabs of concrete; we're people. We're mushy, squishy, finite, and vulnerable. The more we can allow ourselves to be so with other people, the more they'll allow themselves to be so with us; the more we'll all recognize just how tough (and sublime) it is to be a person and be glad for each other's company on this, rather more universal, "Magical Mystery Tour." We have to be open to others in order to do this, though. Especially to those others, in our immediate environment, whom we claim to love--our friends, our SO's, our families.
(Okay, Loretta, fire away!
)Love,
CJ
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Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Alright CJ take heed here is my fire 
The test of the ability to love another manifests itself in the reaction or the ability of one who has been attacked or offended to respond with kindness, as opposed to returning the same.
There is far more room for intimacy to take place when a mate can respond in this way to something that offends them, as opposed to being open.
For one to attempt to be intimate with another who does not have those qualities is simply wasting their time.
Some of us find intimacy while dressed in their finery. This is what nurtures them. This enables them to become better people. Not all that magical or mystical after all. But just a revelation of what can happen when ones basic needs are being met.
The inability of us human beings to be perfect ensures that we will be offended and offend others. That is something we can not escape. It is how one is able to deal with that...that determines the level of intimacy that will be possible to achieve in any given relationship.
And what determines ones ability to deal with that is the condition of ones interior world. In other words it depends on how strong you are inside. And how strong ones interior life is, is totally dependent on who one chooses to support that world. And that my dear friend is something that is also inescapable.
The very fact that some of us come here and expect to find intimacy amongst our selves, signals an inability to find it else where.
All the best
The test of the ability to love another manifests itself in the reaction or the ability of one who has been attacked or offended to respond with kindness, as opposed to returning the same.
There is far more room for intimacy to take place when a mate can respond in this way to something that offends them, as opposed to being open.
For one to attempt to be intimate with another who does not have those qualities is simply wasting their time.
Some of us find intimacy while dressed in their finery. This is what nurtures them. This enables them to become better people. Not all that magical or mystical after all. But just a revelation of what can happen when ones basic needs are being met.
The inability of us human beings to be perfect ensures that we will be offended and offend others. That is something we can not escape. It is how one is able to deal with that...that determines the level of intimacy that will be possible to achieve in any given relationship.
And what determines ones ability to deal with that is the condition of ones interior world. In other words it depends on how strong you are inside. And how strong ones interior life is, is totally dependent on who one chooses to support that world. And that my dear friend is something that is also inescapable.
The very fact that some of us come here and expect to find intimacy amongst our selves, signals an inability to find it else where.
All the best
-
Anita
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3068
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:55 pm
- Location: Burlingame, CA (San Francisco Bay area)
This continues to be a good thread.
Beauty--
Thank you for your post above.
I appreciate that so much!
CJ--
Both of your posts in this thread express what I feel about it, and the second one really touches me. Thanks for the work you obviously put into it.
Loretta--
There is no general rule that all of us can agree on, when it comes to "should I speak about _______ to my wife, family, best friend?" It is always hard to hear about the relationships that go downhill, as yours did, rather than coming closer together through the sharing.
It is a big gamble, everytime we share something hidden with a partner. It helps to have a track record with that person, for sure. The more times you've been through the wringer with them, the better you know what they can handle, and what YOU can handle.
I only know how the process works for me, so I'll speak from my experience here.
I have a secret, and it's not something I think my partner needs to hear about. It'll cause more trouble than it would help, I think. OK, great. We're married ten years, and I've never felt any urge to tell her.
Then something changes. The only way I can describe is that the secret reaches "critical mass." There is suddenly a continuous pressure behind
it, a drum beat that does not let up for very long. [My thanks to Shirley Ann Sometimes for that analogy.] I can continue to keep silent about it, but now I'm paying a price for my silence. While that drum beat is getting louder, it takes more energy for me to ignore it and try to get on with my life.
At some point, I have to talk to my SO. I personally can not hold out for long once that process begins. I'd have to say that it's a positive thing in the long run, but that doesn't mean that I don't dread the short term! I can easily see that you could be married forty years, and go through lots of these, and yet it's still a gamble. Especially with that one big secret we all know so well--crossdressing, right?
I do not understand what brings on "critical mass." I only recognize when it has occurred. When I was a teen and a crossdresser, it never occurred to me once to "share" my secret. There was no urgency at all--it was my private life, period. No one was going to know. When CDing came back 30 years later, it came back with the kind of pressure I'm describing. The only difference was that this secret didn't involve an SO--it involved the whole world of family and friends. But the process was the same, and I knew that I would have to do it. The gamble has paid off for me, and for others on this forum, but there are no guarantees at all.
But I repeat--if an issue reaches that pressure point for me, then it's no longer "if" I'll talk about or act on it. It's "how soon?"
Maria--
It's a tricky issue, but I don't think what I'm saying here invalidates what you're saying. I do think we're in charge of our own destiny, to a large extent. I may not fully understand what I'm calling "critical mass," but I tend to think that I have a hand in deciding to let that process happen.
It appears that I don't have much choice once the drumming starts. But I think that over the years, I make many small, unnoticed choices that add up and add up. And one day they suddenly mesh into a solid block, like the crystals that appear in a saturated solution in chemistry class. One minute you've got an empty glass--then you add that last pinch of salt, and a salty little iceberg is suddenly floating in there!
So my sudden "coming out" was really just the end product of a long period of wondering "what if?", but never fully looking at it head-on.
Virginia--
You have certainly been through heavy times, but it appears that being Virginia is working for you, yes? Could you had imagined this ten years ago? I certainly couldn't!
Beauty--
Thank you for your post above.
I appreciate that so much!CJ--
Both of your posts in this thread express what I feel about it, and the second one really touches me. Thanks for the work you obviously put into it.
Loretta--
There is no general rule that all of us can agree on, when it comes to "should I speak about _______ to my wife, family, best friend?" It is always hard to hear about the relationships that go downhill, as yours did, rather than coming closer together through the sharing.
It is a big gamble, everytime we share something hidden with a partner. It helps to have a track record with that person, for sure. The more times you've been through the wringer with them, the better you know what they can handle, and what YOU can handle.
I only know how the process works for me, so I'll speak from my experience here.
I have a secret, and it's not something I think my partner needs to hear about. It'll cause more trouble than it would help, I think. OK, great. We're married ten years, and I've never felt any urge to tell her.
Then something changes. The only way I can describe is that the secret reaches "critical mass." There is suddenly a continuous pressure behind
it, a drum beat that does not let up for very long. [My thanks to Shirley Ann Sometimes for that analogy.] I can continue to keep silent about it, but now I'm paying a price for my silence. While that drum beat is getting louder, it takes more energy for me to ignore it and try to get on with my life.
At some point, I have to talk to my SO. I personally can not hold out for long once that process begins. I'd have to say that it's a positive thing in the long run, but that doesn't mean that I don't dread the short term! I can easily see that you could be married forty years, and go through lots of these, and yet it's still a gamble. Especially with that one big secret we all know so well--crossdressing, right?
I do not understand what brings on "critical mass." I only recognize when it has occurred. When I was a teen and a crossdresser, it never occurred to me once to "share" my secret. There was no urgency at all--it was my private life, period. No one was going to know. When CDing came back 30 years later, it came back with the kind of pressure I'm describing. The only difference was that this secret didn't involve an SO--it involved the whole world of family and friends. But the process was the same, and I knew that I would have to do it. The gamble has paid off for me, and for others on this forum, but there are no guarantees at all.
But I repeat--if an issue reaches that pressure point for me, then it's no longer "if" I'll talk about or act on it. It's "how soon?"
Maria--
It's a tricky issue, but I don't think what I'm saying here invalidates what you're saying. I do think we're in charge of our own destiny, to a large extent. I may not fully understand what I'm calling "critical mass," but I tend to think that I have a hand in deciding to let that process happen.
It appears that I don't have much choice once the drumming starts. But I think that over the years, I make many small, unnoticed choices that add up and add up. And one day they suddenly mesh into a solid block, like the crystals that appear in a saturated solution in chemistry class. One minute you've got an empty glass--then you add that last pinch of salt, and a salty little iceberg is suddenly floating in there!
So my sudden "coming out" was really just the end product of a long period of wondering "what if?", but never fully looking at it head-on.
Virginia--
You have certainly been through heavy times, but it appears that being Virginia is working for you, yes? Could you had imagined this ten years ago? I certainly couldn't!
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Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Hi Anita,
I have a simple rule that I follow when it comes to sharing secretes, that takes very little energy. That rule is that I only share the ones that have the possibility of benefiting the person who I would be enlightening.
It is the same with information. I have information that could destroy certain people, but what is the point of that? What would be the pay off?
Quite simply if it will not serve to build another up there is no point in sharing it. That takes fear right out of the equation.
It is known with in the immediate community in which I live, and function, that I wear women's clothes. (they have let me know that they know, and have said it is not a big deal). (In fact they said it is nothing). Yet I have not told anyone, and I am alright with that.
That is what works for me I do not spend much energy concealing it.
Don't let it burden you hon. I would not trade what I have today for what I had back then. Not in a heart beat.You wrote:It is always hard to hear about the relationships that go downhill, as yours did, rather than coming closer together through the sharing.
I have a simple rule that I follow when it comes to sharing secretes, that takes very little energy. That rule is that I only share the ones that have the possibility of benefiting the person who I would be enlightening.
It is the same with information. I have information that could destroy certain people, but what is the point of that? What would be the pay off?
Quite simply if it will not serve to build another up there is no point in sharing it. That takes fear right out of the equation.
It is known with in the immediate community in which I live, and function, that I wear women's clothes. (they have let me know that they know, and have said it is not a big deal). (In fact they said it is nothing). Yet I have not told anyone, and I am alright with that.
That is what works for me I do not spend much energy concealing it.
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Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
Hey Sis,
I love your approach to "secrets." That is marvelous to be able to do that and to express it that way. I guess I never thought of it like that, not that I use "secrets" to hurt people, but the way you express it is beautiful!
Now I have it on good authority that your current avatar is actually the real you??? Care to comment, honey!
Love ya,
Virginia
I love your approach to "secrets." That is marvelous to be able to do that and to express it that way. I guess I never thought of it like that, not that I use "secrets" to hurt people, but the way you express it is beautiful!
Now I have it on good authority that your current avatar is actually the real you??? Care to comment, honey!
Love ya,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
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Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Hi Sis,
However it is nice to know that I pass that well.
Thanks hon.You wrote: I love your approach to "secrets." That is marvelous to be able to do that and to express it that way. I guess I never thought of it like that, not that I use "secrets" to hurt people, but the way you express it is beautiful!
My Avatars include a disclaimer that they are a fantasy. They are all pictures of genetic women.You also wrote:Now I have it on good authority that your current avatar is actually the real you??? Care to comment, honey!
However it is nice to know that I pass that well.