My mom found out..

[Amy Santos]

Well technically, she found out that I was crossdressing a long time ago, but anyway. I "borrowed" a few of her clothes and I stashed it away in my guitar case, along with a few clothes that I bought. When I checked my guitar case awhile ago, it was left half open and all the stuff I borrowed from her was gone. I guess she found out and took them back. All the stuff I bought was still there though. She hasn't said anything to me about it yet, and I doubt that she will. Anyway, I think she was basically trying to send me a message. "Do what you have to do, just stay away from my closet"

[Beauty]

Hi Amy,

That's really good news. I think you should stay away from her closet too. Especially since she knows now.

I'm someone who TOTALLY raided my mom's closet so I'm not saying it will be easy, but since she knows maybe it will be easier to buy things?

Congrats and good luck!!!

[Becca Chambers]

Now that's an understanding mother. My mom found the bras I bought with MY OWN MONEY and confiscated them on the spot. I don't think I'll be turning her over any time soon, so I guess I've gotta go rebuy 'em.

[Loretta Ann]

Borrowed???
Obviously with out her consent.
Do we live in the same world?
Do we speak the same language?

Sounds like you have got a good mom.
Might be some wisdom in treating her better than that.

I have heard it said that one will treat
their wife the same as they treat their Mother.
Sounds like a recipe for failure.

[Beauty]

[Loretta Ann]

Hey Beauty,

What don't you know about Hon?

Do you call taking something with out the owners consent borrowing?

[Beauty]

Hi,

Yes. I was also a child who borrowed my mom's clothes. So though I don't condone wearing clothing that's not yours I can understand why she is.

She's a kid. I don't think we need to be so harsh to her. Borrowing your wife's clothes is the one that's a major tabu.

I was saying that now that her mom knows "maybe" she has license to buy her own things, but even if she doesn't she can wear her mom's clothes. Daughters do that all the time too.

[Becca Chambers]

The greatest advice I can give is talk to her about it point-blank. If she hasn't condemned you about it and quite obviously knows that you do it, maybe all it takes is a lil' talk to make her understand and then she'd totally support you. Then, you'd have a dressing buddy. God knows how much fun I'd have if I had a mother that took me out shopping.

[Loretta Ann]

Hi Beauty,

Do you call taking something with out the owners consent borrowing?

Yes. I was also a child who borrowed my mom's clothes. So though I don't condone wearing clothing that's not yours I can understand why she is.

So can I understand why she is and I can support that.
Sorry but what I can't support is calling it borrowed.

I was a child who stole my mothers and my Aunties clothing. Some of it I returned. Some of it I destroyed. If it was still clean or if I could clean it, I returned it. But that does not take away from the fact that I stole it.

Not arguing with you. Please feel free to see it as you like.

[DonnaT]

Returning something 'borrowed' is not stealing, sorry. It's not really borrowing either, because it was done without consent.

Instead of arguing semantics, why don't we just suggest:
Amy, since your mother knows, and doesn't like for you to use her things, maybe it's time you apologize, then explain what's going on and finally, ask her if she has anything she no longer wears that she might give you.

[Loretta Ann]

Returning something 'borrowed' is not stealing, sorry. It's not really borrowing either, because it was done without consent.

Tell that one to the judge. I know of someone who took a car without the owners consent during the early hrs of the night, and returned it before dawn. And went to jail for theft.

steal
v. stole, (stl) sto·len, (stln) steal·ing, steals
v. tr.

1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.

[Virginia]

Amy, Honey just take Donna's advise if you feel comfortable in sharing with your mother. She seems level headed about it and you can always ask her to visit with us and let your sisters here admonish each other without your involvement - or not!
Love,
Virginia

[CJ]

Hi all,

Loretta,

I'm pretty sure Amy is aware of the moral implications of taking her mother's clothes without her permission. It's why she used quotation marks around the word "borrowed." There's no need for a priest to tell a parishioner that he's sinned when that parishioner is in the confessional, saying, "forgive me, Father, for I have sinned."

We've all done things we're not particularly proud of, especially if necessity forces us (as is often the case with a crossdresser who either would otherwise have no access to clothes and makeup or who has not yet developed the confidence to go out and purchase his own on a more regular basis). The important thing is to recognize that our behaviour may be hurtful to others (and to change it when and if need be). Just by opening herself up to us the way she has, Amy obviously knows this. The next step--as Becca, Donna, and Virginia have suggested--is to open herself up to her mother.

Yes, Amy lives in the same world you do. To imply otherwise is just mean-spirited and can do nothing but increase whatever feelings of (self-) alienation she already feels. Ease up a little, eh?

CJ

[Loretta Ann]

Hey CJ,

The only thing that I can not support in this situation is the fact that she referred to it as being borrowed.

You are free to interpret that any way you like. And so am I. And I have (rightly or wrongly) interpreted that as being extremely close to denial. I think that is my right? That is my contribution to this thread, and I stand by it.

Oh! and there is one more thing I can not support. May I suggest that you focus on supporting Amy as opposed to attempting to change me to your liking? That is something you have been attempting to do for a long time now with negative results. Does this not fall into the category of repeating the same kind of behavior over and over again expecting different results? Don't you think it is about time you gave that up? Or is this a signal of a deeper rooted problem from within?

You also thought I was being mean spirited with others who I have been able to help. So please feel free to continue to imply (Or attempt to project) that to be the current situation.

All the best.

[Lorna]

Technically, Loretta, you are correct. Taking something without permission is taking as opposed to "borrowing", and is never excuseable.

However in this particular case, there are other factors to consider:

1) it is a case of a family member taking clothing from another family member's closet (something that has been done to everyone, in every family, the world over since the invention of clothing.) I can't tell you how many times as a teenager my sister would "borrow" or take my male shirts out of my closet without my consent. (Now it just so happened that i was doing the same with her leotards! ) Removing an article of clothing from a family member's closet w/o their permission can hardly be put into the same category as, say, shoplifting a blouse from a store.

2) I honestly want to ask you - have you never done the same? As a child or a teen, you've never taken an article from a sister's or mother's closet without her knowledge? I don't mean to offend you but I just find that hard to believe. I'm not saying it's right mind you, I'm just saying that this is a situation that the majority of us in this very forum has experienced. We have all done it. It's not saying it was the "right thing to do", it's just saying that as human beings (who are not perfect creatues) that family members raiding one another's closets is a day-to-day occurence.

I just don't think that the action or even how the action is worded is such a highly punishable offense.