Bi CDs?

[Georgia(SO)]

Hi ya'll,

I just sorta need to talk. My live-in guy has just left for a weekend of dressing up and playing with men who like girlz. I am sitting here flooded with emotions that do not add up. I just need to lay then out there and see if someone will hold my hand through them.

A little background is probably helpful. He told me, when we were first together that he is a CD and that she ... um ... enjoys men. I thought it was no big deal because I didn't realize he was telling me that he would need to continue... um... enjoying men. Over the last four years, I have pretty much come to figure out several things.

As a male, he is strictly interested in gg's. As a female, however, she is strictly interested in gm's. There are several levels to his dressing - sometimes it's just him in a skirt. No big deal. Sometimes, though, there is a distinctly different personality there - sometimes it's even her in his clothes. And sometimes, *she* has to go play. This doesn't happen often - this is the first time in two years, but he probably needs it to be about every 6 months or so. (We've been really busy with work and he hasn't had the opportunity).

We talked about committment in our relationship. I don't share well and he knows that. The upshot of the conversation(s) came down to this. He won't cheat with another gg - if he does, I'm outta here. But this - well, the upshot was that this is different in some barely definable way and that I would be willing to look the other way on this. And that, my friends, is what is eating my lunch today. So I just need to talk this out, because my logic and my emotions are seriously at odds this afternoon and I can't decide whether I am actually being quite reasonable or just a big frigging fool.

Ok. Anyway who doesn't want to hear me wander around in circles in my own mind should bail now. On the one hand, there is, of course, no difference between sexual cheating with another woman and with a man. Dopf. Neither of us is pretending that there is. On the other hand, this seems to be so ... uh ... fundamental to a part of him that is *is* different in some indefinable way. I think.

I am aware that bisexual people come in a couple of broad categories. There are those who can easily interchange one gender for another - they are attracted to both equally. And in that case, stepping out with a man would be the same thing as stepping out with a gg. But this is different for him - as best I can describe it, his female side needs interaction with a man as part of being female. So, in that case, if I were to ask for total monogamy - a) I wouldn't get it, and b) I would be asking him to give up something as intrinsically part of him as my sexuality is to me.

Given that, I am constructing my own logic and my own ability to deal with this sort of activity on a very occasional basis. Logically, I can deal with this.

Emotionally, however - good God almighty. I feel like a frigging fool. I am clearly aware that if I went to him and said "Ya know, there are some fantasies that you aren't willing/able to participate in and I think I need to go off for the weekend and indulge in them", he would not be happy. Secondly, I feel like I am not being logical but rather constructing my own little state of denial. I can hear myself, "Well....it's not really cheating because.... etc., etc." It reminds me of an exhusband who thought he "needed" new conquests fairly often to feel male. grrrrrrrrrrrrrr....

I'm upset. I really like this guy a lot. I have known this weekend was coming for about 3 weeks now - there is just this restlessness that gets into him that sounds precisely what ya'll sound like when you haven't been able to dress up for a while. He's argued with himself for days trying to make this urge go away. He talks in his sleep about it. He talks when he's drunk about it. He wanders around the yard talking to himself about it. He looks sad-eyed and miserable and says "I don't want to hurt you". Frankly, by the time he got around to actually arranging it, I just wanted him to go and get it over with so he could quit being so frigging miserable.

But yes, I am jealous. And yes, despite all the logic and all the reasoning and all the denial, it does precisely what an open marriage does - damages the intimacy between him and me (more on my part than his, I guess) and makes me jealous and hurts my feelings and makes me infinitely sad and makes feel foolish.

I'm not angry - much. And I'm not going to leave him over this. Not this time, nor the next. What I want to know is whether, to any bisexual CDs out there, this concept that the female side of him has a separate sexuality that needs taking care of sometimes, makes any sort of sense. And no, he's not interested in being female with me - he needs a MAN for that, and frankly, I'm not interested in it either.

<sigh> I'm either the most understanding woman I know, or a big old silly fool getting taken for a ride one more time.

-georgia(so)

[Jeannie]

Hi Georgia. I'll just speak my mind but don't be offended. If I were you I'd give him the heave ho. Cheating is cheating. He has no respect for you as his partner and the woman he supposedly loves. I would throw him out so fast it would make his head spin. You deserve better Hon. That's a totally selfish way to behave with no regard for your feelings. That's just how I feel about. Maybe I'm wrong but I think not. Don't put up with that kind of abuse.
There is also one very important thing to consider about his behavior.
AIDS. He is putting you at risk for his pleasure. You sound like a smart caring lady. Find a partner who is good to you. You shouldn't put up with it. Hugs. I wish you the best.


Love
Jeannie

[KimberlyS]

Personally I am with Jeannie on this. But I have also learned to accept others for who or what ever they are. So if it works for you. But in this case it sounds like it works for him, but not for you. And a relationship has two sides and both should like it or be able to deal with it before it happens. And sometimes that takes lots of communication.

Have you and your hubby talked about why he feels a need to do this? And what specifically does he need to do?

Depending on what he needs, is there some other way this need can be filled?

Can you possibly fill this need for him? They make some adult "toys" that would possibly allow you to give him what he needs by giving it to him. Pun intended. It may be something that you both could enjoy or have fun with. Or at least not cause undue stress.


And I know people often do not like to get a third party involved, but that may help the two of you work this out better. Because it sounds like this is something your husband does and doesn't want to do and you do not want him to do. I personally can not believe he went with both of you in this current state of uncertainty.

I wish you both the best of luck dealing with this issue.

KimberlyS - CD

[Jeannie]

I wanted to say more but had to help my son's friend pump out a flooded basement! I will just say what I feel so bear with me Georgia.
I have been on both sides so to speak. I consider myself bisexual but if you are with a partner cheating is not an option. There is no such thing as an open marriage. It's not a marriage or a partnership. It's just roomates.
I've had three relationships with women in the last 34 years. Linda for 5 years,Janice for three years and Mini who I married for twenty five years. They all had one thing in common. They all cheated on me. Mini twice. It is bad enough to go through it once but lightening struck 3 times in my case. I have zero tolerance for it. It makes you feel terrible inside and dredges up the most vile of emotions from the depths of your soul.
In my mind there is no way of rationalising it or seeing it in a logical way. It's having your cake and eating it to at someone elses expense. It is a cruel thing to do to a partner. You lose the two most important things for that person in a relationship. Trust and respect.
I never cheated on any of them and my needs were never met,especially sexually, by any of them. Life is not perfect. Don't live with a roomate. Live with a partner who loves,trusts and respects you and does things for you, not to you. You're better off alone Georgia. Trust me on this one. I know. I was a fool. Don't make the same mistake Hon.Hugs.


Love
Jeannie

[Absaroka]

Georgia I'm not going to say that you should kick him out for cheating on you or keep him and accept it or anything in between. You have to figure out what is right for you.

I do think that it will be difficult but neccesary to sort out the societal shoulds from what is right for you. Society says that at a certain point we become monogamous. But many do not and it becomes a bit of a secret for those who manage to make this work. Maybe this is okay for you.

Maybe not. I am not bisexual although my wife was involved with several bisexual men prior to our marriage. At some point it really doesn't matter if the extra partners are male or female because they are still people after all. It may have more to do with feelings of sex vs. intimacy along the lines of married men who patronized prostitutes because that is only sex, not intimacy and that sort of thing. The point is that you need to figure out what is right for you.

I do think that something you mentioned bears a lot of scrutiny by your partner. If you were to tell him the same thing, that sometimes you needed to be with women, how would he react? Especially how wouldhe react if he had become monogamous and so could not use this to justify his actions with others?

Give yourself a big pat on the back because I think you are trying very hard to be accepting, open minded and so on. Then ask yourself if you have tried to hard and if so forgive yourself for an understandable mistake.

Hope you have a nice weekend in spite of it all

Absaroka

[Terri(SO)]

Hi Georgia,
The others have given you very thoughtful responses. I agree with them.
Only you can decide what you need to do. Whatever the gender of the third person, if there is another, and if you cannot reconcile with the fact he is going off to be with another, you know what you need to do. His saying that he doesn't want to hurt you, and then knowingly does it anyway, tells you where you stand.
Maybe Kimberly is right, can you try to introduce some play where you can investigate your ability to satisfy the particular need he thinks a man usually is going to fulfill? Maybe its not something you can't stomach (takes some getting used to), or maybe it is actually a man (hair, smell, etc) he needs, only he would know that.
Bottom line is, if this creates more pain than you can handle, if it is more than what happiness this relationship brings you, time to go.
Terri

[Georgia(SO)]

Thank you all for our considerate answers. Terri (SO) hit the nail on the head...

Bottom line is, if this creates more pain than you can handle, if it is more than what happiness this relationship brings you, time to go.

That's the thing - it isn't *more* pain than I can handle, and it isn't *more* than what happiness the rest of the relationship brings me. It *is* annoying and upsetting and I don't particularly like it. And just as many SOs find about the dressing itself, sometimes I'm relatively ok with it for my own reasons, and sometimes I really don't like it one little bit. And at the moments that I don't like it one little bit, I begin to wonder if *I'm* nuts...

Bottom line - what I wanted to know was not whether I should leave - this is not, in and of itself going to get me to go for a number of reasons including the fact that this man is, overall, a really good guy and, most importantly, I like us together. I like the way we are together.

What I wanted to know was whether it made any sense, regardless of committments or non-committments or monogamy issues, whether it made any sense that the male half of him could be attracted to females and the female half of him be attracted to males in some deep-seated way. Several of you were kind enough to PM me and I found that this dual attraction is not all that unusual. For me, in my own personal situation, that was what I needed to know today. On another day, it could be something totally different!

Ya'll are all very good friends and I appreciate your input. I understand that all of you know that different people lead different types of lives. And I also understand that all of you understand that sometimes we can have conflicting emotions. And when conflicting emotions do rear their battling heads, it's nice to be able to come here and talk them out with someone who doesn't just go into shock over the whole concept.

thanks ya'll,
-g(so)

[DonnaT]

I've come across a number of "Bi" CDs online in the various forums. Many of whom express the same characteristics as your SO, that they are not the least bit attracted to men unless they are in their fem mode.

Prior to learning that, I was of the opinion that Bi was Bi, and that the dressing was an excuse for Bi sex.

However, knowing the large variations in types of transgender personalities that exist, nothing seems impossible with respect to how our brains are wired.

We've even suggested the our sexual orientation is separate and distinct from our gender identity. Seems that for many, this is true, or at least appears true. But for many, they seem to be closely linked. I reckon there are no absolutes in this world.

It's remarkable when we find an SO who is accepting/tolerant of our dressing, and even more remarkable to find someone who can cope with what your are coping with.

Maybe knowing that there are other CDs like your SO will help is some small way.

[Georgia(SO)]

Thank you Donna, very much.

-g(so)

[Jeannie]

There are many differant types of Cders and people in general. We all have needs and desires on a wide sexual spectrum. That's just fine. I just feel if you want to experience and live a varied sexual life you should be single. No matter how you try to rationalize it, it comes down to your partner F--- ing someone else and coming home and F---ing you. If you can live with that more power to you.
I'll leave you with one thought Georgia. Knowing it is going on is bad enough but actually seeing it is a whole differant ball game Hon. Trust me. I know. Good luck Honey. Don't be a doormat. Hugs.


Love
Jeannie

Ps. Being tolerant of others for religion,race,gender is the way it should be. Being tolerant of insensitive,selfish and emotionally cruel behavior is foolish.

[Chris P]

Georgia,

The fact that your boyfriend was able to tell you about these desires, and his need to act on them (instead of sneaking behind your back) actually speaks well of the strength of the relationship.

I don't get the feeling that you feel threatened by it, but more the sense that you perceive it as an infidelity, and "should" react to that issue.

I would take this alone time to sit quietly and reflect on how you really feel...angry? lonely? betrayed? relieved?...and then deal with that specific emotion (and what's behind it) first.

I think finding a counselor to discuss the issue with would be really helpful...hopefully one with some background on bisexual and transgender relationships.

You are the only one who can decide how much of an issue this is (or is not) for you.
I know of several couples where one or both partners are bisexual and have sexual encounters outside the marriage. It's a real problem if the one seeking out a same-sex tryst starts putting affection and energy into someone other than the spouse, and in effect "starving" the relationship at home.

In your case, your boyfriend will need to be exceptionally mature and empathetic if he is to maintain your goodwill and trust in the future.
Not many people are able to rise to that level of responsibility.

If on the other hand this is something that you can incorporate into your sexual play with him (i.e. participating in the encounter), you may be able to add a new level of intimacy to the relationship. However, if you find it disagreeable, it will most likely only become moreso over time.

All intimate relationships are difficult (at various points) and require effort to maintain. Sometimes the effort becomes disproportionate to the joy we receive in return.

Chris

[Georgia(SO)]

Chris P

Thanks for your input. Yes, I also think that it speaks highly of our relationship that he is honest with me and isn't out sneaking around. I think it took a lot of courage on his part to be upfront, and it took some amount of courage on my part not to freak out...

I don't get the feeling that you feel threatened by it, but more the sense that you perceive it as an infidelity, and "should" react to that issue.

No, I don't feel threatened by it, per se. I mean, why would I? It's not about me. This has been a part of his life for 25 years - long before I ever met him 5 years ago. In fact, it has nothing whatsoever to do with me. I don't think it's wrong or morally bankrupt or anything else. It doesn't bother me that it's males he's attracted to while en femme... in fact, I can deal with that far better than I could deal with an attraction to other gg's. In fact, I *wouldn't* deal with him playing with other gg's. There's only so much understanding I can do, after all!

OTOH, you are right - it is an infidelity of one sort or the other. And with that comes all the problems of open infidelities - the diminishing of my sense of our intimacy and that special bond when sex is just between two people. And, yes, in some ways I feel like I "should" be upset about it. I mean, I would never stand still for sharing him with another woman - therefore why would this be different. I just kinda needed to reassure myself that I wasn't being totally stupid and that some form of this made sense to someone. Thanks to all who have privately said that yes, it does, more or less...

I'm much better this afternoon. Thanks for all ya'll's input.

-g(so)

[SilverLady(SO)]

Hi, Georgia -

I've waited to post my thoughts on this matter until now, hoping that this issue would be addressed by more than just Jeannie and KimberlyS, so please bear with me while I speak my mind!!

WHOA!! Back the truck up, folks!!!

I do know that there are Bi-CD's, and there are numerous couples who are in an 'open relationship', although I don't agree with the 'open' relationships. If you, Georgia, can handle being in an open relationship, then more power to you.

The issue is not whether Georgia's CD was 'open and honest' with her regarding his being a Bi-CD, as he did let her know from the beginning. But there's so much more going on here than that.

Georgia's CD is out having sex with at least one male admirer, maybe more, and also having sex with Georgia. However, now Georgia is being subjected to a whole host of STD's, and especially HIV or AIDS. Sure, the CD and 'her' male partner can use condoms, but those are not 100% effective for disease prevention.

Georgia, if your CD 'needs' the sexual attention that 'she' would be getting from a male, and if you and he/she were serious about keeping your relationship together - and monogamous - I would strongly recommend exploring the use of sex toys whereby YOU can fulfill that need for him/her. You owe it to YOURSELF to protect YOU from disease, as it appears your CD has little or no regard for your health and welfare.

If you, or your CD, are not willing to explore the use of toys to be used by you in meeting his/her sexual needs, then I would recommend giving him the heave-ho. Pronto. Your health is more important.

If you have no regard for your health, then stay with your CD and hope that you are lucky and don't get a disease from him/her.

Personally, I am extremely glad that my CD does not need the sexual attention from an admirer, so neither one of us has to worry about catching any diseases.

Those are my thoughts.

And shame on everyone who did not even consider the disease aspect.

- SL

[Georgia(SO)]

Silver Lady -

Ok. I appreciate your concern - I really do. However, I know that he is consistently careful in his activities and the bottom line fact is that neither he nor I were remotely virginal when we got together - which, of course, is the nasty part of AIDS -- it can pop up years and years later from some partner you had in 1986. STDs do not particularly concern me *because* I know that the chance of him passing on an STD from these activities - in which he is scrupulously careful - is far less than the chance that one of us could have some creepy-crawly lying dormant from an encounter years before we ever met.

STDs are a concern for all but the couple who have only ever had each other for partners. And anyone who ventures into activities with anyone who has ever had another partner should be reasonably cautious. I'm comfortable with the safety factor between us.

I appreciate all of your input - I really do. We talked some last night after he came home and I'm much better now.

Thanks ya'll,
-g

[Gaven McLaren]

I have to respond to this one. Now one of my best friends is a gg and bi. Now this is an issue that she and her husband have been dealing with from day 1 in the relationship. They have had many arguments about it. I look at it from both sides because I am an uninvolved 3rd party. First he feels that because she sometimes has a girlfriend that he wants a girlfriend as well. She would have no problem if he wanted a boyfriend and he has had boyfriends before. I personally feel that if he needs to have a boyfriend then let him have one with bounderies. You will have to talk it through very calmly and see what will work best for the 2 of you if you would like the relationship to continue.