Ted Haggard - Scandal

[Danielle La Belle]

Hi Girls:

I decided to weigh in on this current scandal. Ted Haggard, the previous head of a megachurch in Colorado Springs, Co., has resigned after the board of directors told him that he was out. Yes, "out" of his former office and "out" by having an affair with a another man for the past 3 years.

This is my point:

He was in a position to effectively lead and demonstrate leadership over a group of Chrisitian people that find homosexuality to be wrong. That is a judgement girls. I think as long as we form opinions and judgement of others we really just judge ourselves.

Any form of social predjudice should not be tolerated. Live and let live is my motto. Now, we take this concept and look at Rev. Haggard and his family, wife, children etc. No matter what Rev. Haggard did, no matter why, I think he clearly was in the wrong. If we are to have rules of understanding, we must apply them to everyone. Not just the masses while our elected leaders dance to a different tune.

Good bad or indifferent, I think that we as a nation suffer at our own hands when we segregate against race, religion, sex, or creed. I am pro-Gay rights on all levels, as I am pro-woman on all levels. If we are to be a nation that supports "equal rights and fairness for all," then there simply can be no exception to this. Exceptions are what they are; discrimination and segregation of a specific group or class of human for the benefit of others.

Rev. Haggard made a mistake for which his family will suffer long after the last word is written. I think that alone is punishment enough.

Hugs

Danielle Marie

[Anita]

Hi Danielle--
I have no love for the position that his church takes, but I find myself wanting to "heal" him. Living such a split life has to take a toll on anyone who does it, and I would not wish that on anyone. The eight months that I kept the secret of my TGness, while I figured out "What to do?", was enough to show me the hell of concealment.

In therapy, I recently found some old memory around being forced to keep some terrible secret when I was 4 or so. I do not know what the secret was, but the feeling around it is very bad. I have hated secret-keeping ever since, so much so that it now makes sense that I told friends and family about my CDing as soon as I possibly could. It took some courage, but I can see that the motivation was knowing how hard it has been living with the consequences of that other secret, so long ago.

So again, no matter how much I may dislike what Mr. Haggard was trying to do with his life, I also know what pain he must have lived with. Yes, his career may be over, and his integrity has been damaged badly. But he'll have a chance to start over with a guilt-free slate, too.

I am glad you are pro-gay. I know that many CDers have a dilemma about this, since they don't consider themselves to be gay, and get tired of being lumped together with the gay movement. Like it or not, though, we are going to be part of it, and need the same protections.

[CJ]

Hi all,

Danielle, Anita,

I agree with a little bit of both your views. What I find difficult (not impossible, mind you, just difficult) to forgive Mr. Haggard is not his secret-keeping per se but his condemnation of those very behaviours he, himself, secretly engaged in (that is, of course, if the allegations are true).

Can you picture yourself, Anita, still in the TG closet, but telling people that transfolk are an abomination? Can you picture yourself taking money from people for having given them this bit of wisdom?

Yes, I want Mr. Haggard to heal as well. But he'll have a long way to go before he can convince me that he actually wants to heal, you know?.

Love,
CJ

[Paulie]

Well... I feel like I have to throw in my two cents on this, since I'm right here in Colo Springs.

I've been suspicous of all the religious organizations that have come to town. I don't think it's a positive.

I have nothing against another's faith, as long as it's not forced on others. Which is what happens quite often here.

I've always wondered what Ted Haggard's motives were. It would seem he would "act" like a caring person, and yet at the same time condemn others and try to affect change through his followers and the government. And, I have to say, the New Life Church is a very strange place. It's like they reprogram you there. I've never attended, but have heard and seen enough to know this to be true.

Anyway, I do feel so bad for his family, this will be hard for them all. I really wish he hadn't tried to lie and cover up on this at first. Maybe he'll come to understand others better through this, and accept people for who they are.

Somehow I don't have much faith that will happen. Now, the church is setting up others to counsel Mr. Haggard. With James Dobson on this team, I just know the outcome will not be good. It sounds like a reprogramming session where in the end they will have him as their poster boy that gays can be "cured"!

[Elizabeth]

Hey girls,

I am with Danelle on this one. Before I came out of the closet, I condemned crossdressers and transsexuals on many occasions. Not because I beleived they were doing something wrong, but because I did not want to draw any attention to myself.

I would like to see him come clean and admit what he has done and apologize. If he can admit what he did, I can forgive him.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Lydia]

As to forgiving this guy for being gay? There is nothing to forgive. Nor is there anything sinful about his keeping it a secret.

What I cannot forgive him for is being a sanctimonious, lying hypocrite. I hope he suffers in the hell of his own making, along with the likes of Swaggart and Bakker.

I apologize for the rant that has nothing to do with the subject of this forum.

Lydia

[Virginia]

I am with CJ on this --- I think that his standing in the pulpit and preaching against the very thing he subscribes to is the height of hypocrisy. The "lying" to his wife, family and congregation is nothing more than what some of us do to hide our "gift." When/if we come out we suffer mostly the same consequences.
I have not talked to any of our gay or lesbian cohorts lately, but I do know that historically, we=crossdressers, were not looked on very fondly because of the history of the struggle that gays and lesbians went through to obtain the level of acceptance that they have. We, as a "political force" were no where to be found, i.e., in the streets and halls of legislation or in people's faces demanding recognition and dare I say protection. Our "Lot" is, granted, somewhat different I will give them that, but we still make up (some statistically state 10% +/-) of the population. We are riding the coattails of our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters and thus get lumped into that part of society that is not considered "mainstream." Those of us who have come-out usually do not get the same reaction as some one who comes out as being gay or lesbian. Generally, and I use the term very loosely, generally society is now more accepting of someone admiting to be gay, but a crossdresser???? First they do not understand it and second it is considered comedic by those who have not got a clue! Thus the first question out of their mouth: "Are you gay?"
We have a long way to go but our ambassadors are out there and we are making in roads, it is just going to take a while!
Keep the faith girls!
Love,
Virginia

[Stephanie H]

I felt the need to weigh in on this issue.
When people are in a position of authority, there needs to be integrity on their part. They must have it, share it and live it. When this person projects authority and does not have the integrity, then need to be called on the issues and "enjoy" the benefits being exposed.

[Elizabeth]

As to forgiving this guy for being gay? There is nothing to forgive. Nor is there anything sinful about his keeping it a secret.

What I cannot forgive him for is being a sanctimonious, lying hypocrite. I hope he suffers in the hell of his own making, along with the likes of Swaggart and Bakker.

I apologize for the rant that has nothing to do with the subject of this forum.

Lydia

I was not thinking of forgiving him for being gay, but for lying and being a hipocrite. There are a good portion of us transgendered who also lied about who we were.

Love always,
Elizabeth