He/She

[Dawn (SO)]

So, I want to talk and get some input into my dilema. I have known for 19+ years about my husband's CD'ing. She had a name, Arlene. When we married, I took an active role in helping and participating with Arlene and we changed her name to Angel. I will not call her "Angel" right now. I cannot bring myself to it. You may understand why later on.

I want to get the gist of things out without going into too much detail but I don't know if I can.

We've raised our children. All along I told him that when the children were all gone, he could do and dress how he wanted and I would understand and still love and accept him. Our last son was scheduled to leave December 1. One week before Thanksgiving, an old friend (who doesn't know about cd'ing) stopped by. We hadn't seen him for about 15 years. He's very handsome. Out of the blue, hubby decides it's time for him to dress and off he goes. We were drinking. He left the room for about an hour and got all dolled up from head to toe. I knew what he was doing and went in our bedroom and told him it was inappropriate, not the time, etc, etc, etc. He wouldn't listen and told me our friend would understand. Oh, he did alright and decided if he could get hubby changing outfits, he'd have time to make designs on me. (Which didn't work at all!) Hubby decided after this, it was just ok to do and dress whenever he wanted. He'd stay hidden in the bedroom while I had to deal with our life. Dec 1, our son moved.

This is all really strange to me but for the next two months, he absolutely went beserk (that's the closest word I can think of). He's been completely inappropriate with this friend and for two months he was calling him and when the friend would come over, he'd throw himself at him like he was some teeanaged girl going gaga over a man.

I absolutely hate to say and admit what I did in retaliation but last weekend, the friend came by and I decided to use my womanly ways on him and seduce him in front of hubby and did so. Close enough to get him in the bathroom and pretend something happened. I just wanted hubby to feel how it felt for him to betray me so. It did, so he says, and I DO believe him. He's stopped the bad behavior.

I don't call her "Angel" anymore because I feel like she took herself away from me and gave herself freely to someone else. And what's worse, it was for sex. She wanted sex. The friend said no.

The age old question. "Why"?

I just want to love Angel again and accept her again and not be afraid of what she will do. I do miss her with all my heart but I have to know she's mine. When we promised to love, honor and cherish, I meant it. To me, what happened wasn't honoring me however, I didn't honor him or her either.

I just don't know what to do. There is more I want to ask of you all, baby steps for me, though.

Thanks for being here.

[Stormy(SO)]

Sexual prowess is an odd thing. I think for some it is the ultimate acceptance - being sexually attractive to the opposite sex dressed en femme? I'm having a hard time even trying to imagine such a thing. I guess the closest I can come is being back in high school and girls competing for the same cool guy.

I don't think that any reason excuses his bad behavior and I did like your "shock" therapy to get your point across. I would have to recommend counseling to see just where both of you are at and to get you two back on track.

I know when Missy found out that I was very much accepting of her CDing she scared me a little bit with her enthusiasm but it has since found it's place in our lives and we are both enjoying her and I actually miss her when she can't dress. We have a unique relationship generally - we talk about everything and are each other's best friends regardless of what s/he is manifesting.

I have no idea how I'd react to what happened to you although I would hope I would be as creative as you were. I think it's something the two of you need to really talk about. As others will tell you communication is everything.

Stormy

[Melyssa Anne]

Dawn---

I feel for you hon. I read your post and didn't know what to say to you.

I don't want to speculate on what is going on with Angel...it is foreign to me. It seems to me that something was triggered, or some stress/crisis has occurred, or??? But in any case, this is obviously not healthy for you or for yours and Angels relationship. Have you thought about counseling to help sort it out. Sometimes having a third party guide the discussion can help get an open honest discussion going and get to the root of the problem. And yes, there are therapists that can deal with all of this.

good luck to you and let us know if there is anything we can do.

[Kyra]

Hi Dawn,

IMO if you have sat down with Angel and tried to talk to your SO about this unusual (and disturbing) behavior with no resolve, then you might want to consider counselling. I, too, think there's a trigger to what has happened. It might be the "empty nest" feeling as your youngest leaves home. I really don't know. But if the lines of communication break down, I see no alternative.

Please know that we are here to support you. I hope everything turns out alright.

Hugs,
Kyra

[DonnaT]

I agree with Stormy.

You did what you had to do so you could save your marriage. Nothing wrong with that.

As for Angel, it sounds like she experienced a great deal of gender euphoria at the friend's apparent acceptance. Feeling more "like a woman" than ever before.

Gender euphoria really messes with some trans people's ability to make rational decisions. Like someone under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

When a trans person takes a particular step, such as going out in public cross-dressed, he or she feels intense excitement and pleasure that can last for days.

This can often be accompanied by impulses to do things that the person later regrets.

It's not clear exactly where it comes from. Some speculate that it has to do with the feeling of finally getting some affirmation for a person's sense of gender, transgender status, appearance or sex appeal. It may include some reaction to an apparent adrenaline and/or dopamine rush.

Some people put themselves in situations which could turn violent (e.g., CDing in the wrong place), some have left their spouses and families, some have come out to the wrong people, some have engaged in sexual conduct that they later regretted.

Angel's reaction to the friend showing acceptance of her appearance as a woman and the apparent attraction, by asking her to model her clothes, appears to be such a case of gender euphoria.

I think Angel needs to very much understand that this can happen, especially since you've given her permission to do and dress how she wants and that you would understand and still love and accept her.

Angel needs to make a vow that she will not make any decision that affect her and your life within a week after a public cross-dressing excursion or being accepted by another person. Eventually she will become acclimated to her feelings, and will be able to make rational decisions even when feeling euphoric.

If she can't understand the concept of gender euphoria, a counselor may be needed to get this through to her.

[Dawn (SO)]

Thank you, Donna. and Thank you Everyone. This has all explained alot. I'm having difficulties with feeling as though Angel "gave" herself away to him, thus leaving me out in the cold. Does she really want another? and a man, at that? Or is it just the acceptance? S/he won't talk to me besides to say s/he was on "auto pilot" and "out of control", that when those feelings happen, s/he looses control of behavior. What's up with that?

[Virginia]

Hi Dawn,
I concur with Donna, she may need counselling to help her understand where she is. I may have missed it but does she go out with or without you and what type of acceptance does she get if she is out in public?
I hope you will stay and share with us as some of my sisters here may be dealing with similiar situations and this can only help others as well.
Love,
Virginia

[Dawn (SO)]

She used to go out under the cover of darkness and to not so tasteful venues before we got together. Since we've been together, she's only been out 3 times. She says she doesn't want to go out. There really wasn't any bad reactions from anyone.

[KimberlyS]

Dawn, I agree with the others, if he will not sit down and talk with you about this try to get a third person that can assist with the communication and possibly help him sort through things. Bad and rude behavior is just bad and rude behavior no matter what it is about. And just because someone is struggling is not an excuse for the behavior.

As for the sexual attractiveness to others changing dependent on attire, this I can not understand, as no matter how I am dressed it remains the same for me. This includes my commitment to my wife which began when I asked for her hand in marriage. I guess you could say I played this part out in my mind many times and always came up with the same answer so I guess I did not need to play it out in person. But I do know that we are all different and struggle to find our own paths in life.

I do know for me that many times I did want to talk with my wife about more things and get her view on things. But like many guys I struggled and still do struggle, with the communication part. But this should not be an excuse, but often is. And additionally for me it is hard to talk about something that I am thinking about but can not put words on it to explain it. I have told my wife many times that I would just love to be able to plug her into my brain.

One thing that helped me was I started keeping a journal. This allowed me to write down thoughts and get them out of my brain and visual. Over time I was able to begin to see something that made more sense out of my random and mess of thoughts and feelings I had written down. It also made easier to talk with my wife about things.

I wish strength and guidance to you and your husband as you work through things.

KimberlyS-CD

[Jess(SO)]

Dawn,

gotta agree with the others you both need to sit down and talk openly and with complete honesty either just with each other or with the help of a 3rd party, and soon before this just plain runs way out of control.

good luck

jess

[Georgia(SO)]

Dawn,

I understand where you are coming from. It's a bit of a shock to see your SO hitting on someone - particularly someone to whom they are not normally attracted.

That said, despite the many CDs on this forum who are never attracted to genetic males, there are CDs whose female selves are attracted to men. They aren't gay, per se, and they don't fit the classic definition of bi-sexual. Their male selves are attracted to ggs and their female selves are attracted to genetic males. I know - my guy is one of these. It is possible that your guy is also, although I think that since Angel has been quite open with you, this sort of an attraction would have cropped up sooner.

It seems equally likely that your guy just got carried away with everything that was going on - the son moving out, the freedom to dress without worrying about the child finding out, the friend's acceptance, the drinking. Gender euphoria may explain it. But there is also the tendency of human beings (trans or not) to do things that are out of character while they are drinking, then decide that it was a lot of fun and do it again. It often takes several months for them to realize that they don't want to continue doing these things.

It *is* hurtful to watch your sweetie hit on someone else, regardless of the circumstances. I would wonder whether Angel - or her male self - recognizes that your feelings were hurt and that you felt insecure. If there is no recognition of your feelings there, that would be the place to start talking - either between yourselves or with a counselor.

I am always skiddish about suggesting counselors when it involves sexual issues. First and foremost, it is often the case that one or the other partner is not comfortable discussing sexual issues in front of a stranger. This leads to an unfortunate situation where the shy one does not get heard and the counseling "favors" the one with the complaint. Moreover, counselors who are not comfortable with CD issues can easily misconstrue your husband's actions as latent homosexuality or some such nonsense.

Finally, while I don't blame you for seducing the friend in an attempt to get your husband's attention, I do know that this can backfire badly. There are a bunch of issues here - how does your husband (the male) feel about watching his wife hit on his friend? And how does Angel feel about watching her girlfriend hit on her friend? And how does Angel feel about watching you hit on the guy she's trying to hit on? That's a lot of potential jealousy going around all over the place - topped off with your jealousy of watching her hit on this guy. I'm not saying that this is the case in your house - just thinking out loud here....

georgia (so)

[Dawn (SO)]

OK. I am going to move my discussion to the SO only part. More SO's are responding and helping me than the CD's. I wanted all the input from both but the CD's (men) won't seem to open up and tell me straight. I'm sure most of those discussions are kept very private and personal between the couples and I respect that. My biggest beef was how S/he gave up all our personal secrets, intimate talks and more to this friend.

On the LIGHTER SIDE - ABOUT THE FRIEND, he called Wednesday and left a message on VM, I called him back to see what he wanted. I've been "handling" him since he was run out and keeping him at bay (I'm not so sure he may not want ANGEL at this point, though). S/he stopped by on the way home from work and THE FRIEND IS IN JAIL!!! Evidently, the day he phoned here, he was in some sort of trouble and his MOM called the police and he was picked up on a warrant for his arrest. SO FUNNY. - This isn't the end of the story, you know. I should be writing a book about my life (P.S. - I finally figured out the title last week, I started.)

Back on my subject, I am soo happy I found some people that are coming from the place I do. It seems the CD's won't talk to me in this public forum regarding the sexual aspects. Although, I am on their (CD's) side that it would require public condemnation from anyone with the acceptance in their heart for all things living I hope all the SO's understand the reason for this silence and the Cd finally opened up and talked to their SO's. Mine won't and I've been really confused. He continues to lie about the stupidest things. i.e. Mom asked, "so, where did you have to park?" (asking about the WalMart parking lot at three days before X-mas), Angel (him, though): "We parked all the way back at Payless Shoes and had to walk the full length of the parking lot"!!! Fact: We got REALLY lucky and the parking stall was the second one up, from the front door. He was going to let me off in front and park back in the back 40 but, just then, a car pulled out and we got LUCKY!!!

That was not smart to repeat a story like that. (for me!!!)

OK. I'm going off on a writing tangent here, I'm going to copy this to the book, soon you'll all realize, I must be crazy or in the top 1000 of the sanest people in the world.

Uh OH
Dawn - always. I appreciate and WANT your input. ALL OF YOU. I'm going to introduce my SO. "Angel" - this is my SO = She/he will introduce themselves to you and be asking for admittance to the site.

I still don't have a quote to put at the end of my posts. I'm working on it. The best one I would want now is, "Acceptance is the key to all my problems.)

Dawn.

[Dawn (SO)]

OMG - HELP - ACCEPTANCE - I'm asking for all. I just posted a message and the third or fourth (maybe second) was everyother sentence of what I was saying. I just re-read it after the post and OMG - it's all wrong!!!

[Chris P]

Dawn,

I'm a CD myself, and a physician in the neurological sciences.
I mention this because sometimes I see the same behaviors over and over in certain people (not just crossdressers), and I have come to believe that quite a bit of it is hard-wired (i.e. physiologically driven), although the expression of it is up to the individual.

For many CD's, at some point in their 40's or early 50's there is a burst of complusive dressing, which is very arousing (and I experienced this myself), during which the individual throws caution to the wind.

Internally (for me, for example) it felt like "Damnit, I'm tired of prentending to be someone I'm not! People can like it or leave it!"

What gave me pause about my compulsions, was how potentially disruptive of social relations/friendships this acting out could be.
In my profession as a physician, the issue of my being a crossdresser wouldn't be career ending, but it would probably adversely effect refferals, and remain a source for tittering gossip for some time to come.
Also, self-appointed "moral police" might scrutinize my medical care more closely, and make trouble for me for any minor infractions. (If you don't like a particular physician you can make life hell for her by reporting every tiny screw-up she makes...billing, charting, etc).

I don't know why this compulsion arises like it does. It seems very much akin to the "mid-life crisis" that non-CD males experience too.

My personal suspicion is that it is due to testosterone receptor hypersensitivity, from declining testosterone levels, as a normal part of aging. During this period there is a resurgance of testosterone, and a burst of sexual desire that is hard to contain or channel. How it is expressed depends on how disciplined the individual is, how much insight he/she has into her desires, and the social mileau she finds herself in.

Because this behavior is potentially disrupting for work and relationships, in my opinion it's a good idea to get a handle on it. Notice I am NOT saying that dressing up is the issue per se. The issue is inappropriate behavior for a particular social context.
To be healthy, a CD needs a place to dress safely, and hopefully a S.O. who can sympathize with her needs (easier said than done).
What a CD doesn't need is compulsive behaviors that are difficult to control and that cause pain to herself and others.

Talk therapy, with a counselor trained in Gender Issues is a great way to start. I think that certain SSRI medications (like Zoloft) are even better.

Life is kind of interesting, isn't it??

Chris

[Rikki]

Chris,
You have put "it" so well. And even though I'm not a professional in your field, I concur totally with your conclusion on mid-life crisis and our needs/desires and the necessity of self-control.

Self control in everything might make this a better world everwhere, don't you think?

Frill-on, everyone,
Rikki