How I know I'm not transsexual

[KathyB]

I was thinking about it last weekend because (and this is a whole 'nother topic in itself) I was really wanting to have breast augmentation. I had been wearing my forms and bra for several hours Friday night, most of the day Saturday, and most of the day Sunday. It just feels so darned natural to have bosoms on my chest, and it only makes me want them more.

So how does this help me understand I'm transgender and not transsexual? I started thinking about it, and realized there's a huge difference between wanting to be a woman and knowing you are a woman despite your birth sex.

Sigh....

[Elizabeth]

Hey Zippy,

Very interesting subject. Many of us often ponder this, including many SO's wonding if at some point thier DH are going to say they want to transition. I would be interested to hear just exactly how one can know the difference between wanting to be a woman and knowing you are a woman.

I have always wanted to be a woman and I also have always felt I was really a woman. How can I be certain I am not mistaken? I am not sure how I know these things because it seems I have known for so long, but memories can decieve, we tend to remember things the way we want to.

The criteria for TS according to DSM-IV is a beleif that one is, or a desire to be the gender opposite of one's birth gender. The mental health community see's no difference in desire to be or beleif that one is. If you could explain how this difference does not apply to a diagnosis of Transsexualism as the DSM-IV suggests, I would be grateful.

http://www.mhsanctuary.com/gender/dsm.htm

Diagnostic Features

There are two components of Gender Identity Disorder, both of which must be present to make the diagnosis. Thee must be evidence of a strong and persistent gross-gender identification, which is the desire to be, or the insistence that one is of the other sex (Criteria A). This cross-gender identification must not merely be a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex. there must also be evidence of persistent discomfort about one’s assigned sex or a sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex (Criteria B). The diagnosis is not made if the individual has a concurrent physical intersex condition (e.g., androgen insensitivity syndrome or congenital adrenal hyperplasia) (Criteria C). To make the diagnosis, there must be evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning (Criteria D).

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Lydia]

Where does this leave characters like me? I love women - so much that I want to look like one. However, I've never actually wanted to BE one. There is this strange, unexplained pleasure in wearing a bra, stockings, makeup, etc. etc. As I have said before, I have ceased to explain it - I just enjoy it.

IMHO there is a large percentage of crossdressers in my category that do not fit the above definition of Gender Dysphoria or Gender Identity Disorder. We are not disorderly, we defy labels, and we are simply crossdressers.

Hugs,

Lydia

[Carla L]

I agree with Lydia. I love women and love to dress like one. I also enjoy my sexuality and would never consider, never have, making the transition. I would love breasts but I know that will never happen.

Funny thing though, the two questions my wife had, and I bet are still in the back of her mind:

Are you gay or bisexual?
Do you want a sex change?

I am simply a crossdresser.

[KathyB]

Elizabeth, Lydia, Robin: Thank you for joining in on this topic. I haven't posted in about two years, mostly because there's been very little time for Zippy in my life, and I'm trying to get it back.

My opinion is that Criteria A in the DSM actually includes two very distinct feelings about Gender Identify Disorder (the ones I mentioned in my original post.) It includes them as an either/or choice. Anyone who's read the DSM since revision II or III would agree that although it's the final word with regards to clinical diagnosis, it's far from comprehensive when it comes to describing and diagnosing issues of sex, gender, and sexual preference. I am not a therapist, but I've read "our" section of the DSM for years trying to figure myself out. Frankly, it hasn't always been entirely helpful. Although I'm visibly and physically male, my psychological makeup has always been 50/50 or even 60/40 to the female side.

Until I finally dumped all my resentment and self-loathing and learned to love the part of myself that was Kathy, I could easily have been classified under Criteria D. The depression , anger , shame , and alcoholism I experienced from puberty through my mid-30's were all evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment. Of course, the DSM already has different categories for all of those. But I can honestly believe that (for me, anyway) my transgender nature was probably at the base of much of it.

I really hope CJ posts on this topic. Her understanding and regular study of these topics as a therapist should be invaluable to the discussion.

[Kyra]

Hi everyone,

First, Hi to Zippy for spending time with us again. Don't be so scarce, girlfriend! We miss you. I'm glad to see you getting a little more "Zippy" time.

As for the discussion, I have to say that I did the same as most CD's when I was young. Asking questions of myself, "Am I gay? Do I want a sex change?" and honestly didn't find either appealing. As Robyn said, "I'm simply a crossdresser." Of course, "simply" doesn't even come close to decribing what I am. I am (just as everyone else) a complex individual. I agree with Zippy in that I like having breasts. The extra weight actually feels better, more natural for my posture.

What makes me feel different from the transexuals is fairly straight-forward. I don't hate my male parts. I enjoy being a guy very much. My appearance is appealing to me (and my SO) and I'm definitely attracted to females and not men. I've often thought what it would be like to transition. If I did, then I fear I would start to feel awkward. I would undoubtedly start to hate my genetically altered body. I don't want that. Not for me. I am very content with who I am and where I am on the gender spectrum.

Incidentally, Zippy, I posted a thread in the transgendered section on Transexuals. Here's the link if you're interested: http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... php?t=7858

Being in a diverse area like Denver, I've met a few sisters who've gone from CDing to transitioning. It's almost uncanny, but after talking to these people for a time, I get the sense that it's right for them. They just don't fit in a male gender role. Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm "sensitized" to certain aspects of gender behavior. Call it crossdresser's intuition. I see why they feel compelled to pursue the transition. I also "see" that it's not right for me. This doesn't mean my SO can see what I see. She still has the same fear as most. My greatest struggle is to help her overcome this. Her fear is valid because we've personally seen a family distress over the spouse transitioning.

I'd love to say more, but I've got to run.

Hugs to all,
Kyra

[KathyB]

Gosh, Kyra, thanks for speaking up. You've said many things that really get to the heart of how I feel. I don't hate my male parts either (well, I do dislike the beard ) I really wish I had hips and a round butt, though. I inheirited the family "no-butt" gene from my father and have hollows where my buns should be. I'll be 49 years old this year (despite the youthful appearance of Alyson Hanigan in my avatar) and really wished the Internet and its wealth of information had been available when I was a child. Had I known more then, I might have started taking anti-androgens and later estrogen before testosterone changed so much of me. Now, I don't think my mother or step-father (or anyone else in my family for that matter) would have been entirely keen on the idea. Then again, it was a completely different time back then.

So, would I get and have breast augmentation, despite my obviously male body? Yes. (Would my wife approve? Uh, no.) If I were single? Probably. Would I ever discard my male parts? HECK NO I guess you might say I just want the best of both sexes. So what's so gosh darned wrong with that?

[Virginia]

"if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - there is a very good probability ------------ it's a duck!"............ or "I am a duck in a human body" or "I WANT to be a duck procured from a human body." Things sure get stranger and stranger here on the "Crossdresser's Continuum!" Yes, some of us, Virginia included, have virtually given up on "why??" and just enjoy it! I have said it before, I will say it again and I will continue to say it: "I am Virginia, Virginia is me, and we will hold hands and continue on our Magical Mystery Tour!"
Girls, I consider you all my friends, but like you there are "things" in my life that you just don't need to know about - yes, it pertains to crossdressing and ingrained feminine feelings, desires, loves, hates, fears, passions, yet things that most you have not, will not, can not experience and even if you touched on the edge of it you would think me to be insane. But I am not insane and I know what I feel and what Virginia does to me and for me and I can't explain it from a religious, physical, mental, emotional, or any other state. All I know is that I love it. I am what I define as a NOTS (non-operation transsexual). I don't know how I deal with the complexities that flow through me, I guess not caring, just enjoying is my security!!!
What, to me, TO ME, evidently ONLY TO ME that this discussion references is more support for my theory: "We are the next phase in human evolution!" My sisters are all at various places on the continuum - evolving, and it will take generations. Nature is funny like that - nothing overnight - just takes HER time, weeds out the weaker, and grows the stronger until, until, here is a single carbon unit with both the aspects of male and female combined into one, very elaborate, wondrous, magnificent, beautiful, strong, smart, empathetic, walking, talking, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, bring home the bacon AND fry it up in the pan - person!!!!!
Never quit studying, questioning, appraising, enlightening, and most of all never quit evolving for the better.
Love,
Virginia

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

Wow!!!!, some really nice posts. Kudos to Kyra and Viginia for enlightening posts, they are appreciated.

I seem to be in a very unusual position because I just can't seem to fit into any molds. I certainly am not just a crossdresser. It appears that most people here meet the first criteria, but fail to meet the second criteria, which is the inappropriateness of thier birth gender. Most here seem to be ok with being a man. That is where we differ, I hate being male.

Having said that, I am different than most transsexuals in that I don't hate my genitals. In my teen years I could only identify myself as a chronic masturbater and have been hypersexual until I came out of the closet. I am talking 2-8 times a day, everyday.(Not sure what that means) It seems like once I came out to the world, my desire to have sex or masturbate seriously subsided.

It's almost as if that was my outlet for all my frustrations and once I resolved the conflict, the need went away. Having said that, my sex drive rebounded after marrying my new sweetheart, Raven(SO), although it is still no where near where it used to be. Which brings up the point. I don't hate my genitals.

I would prefer to have female organs and I do have a few issues, I hate being naked for instance, but I would not self mutilate myself to be rid of them. I also don't prohibit my wife from touching them and I have no problem using what I have to gain pleasure. This flies in the face of what most transsexuals feel.

I still beleive I am transsexual. I have a strong desire to transition and I beleive I will as soon as I have the means to do so. While I don't loath my genitals, I have no problem whatsoever exchanging them for female organs, even if only psuedo.

In the end, I am inclined to agree with Virginia. Knowing what I know about evolution and how new traits appear first in only a small percentage of any given population, I beleive we are a mutation, neither male nor female but somewhere inbetween. Some feeling very feminine all the time and others feeling feminine only a small percentage of the time, yet none of us feeling male all the time, with some of us somewhere inbetween.

When I first came here, I did not know that crossdressers and transsexuals were different. I just assumed everyone was like me and those who claimed to only like dressing occasionally, were just in denial or flat out lying to keep their marriage intact. But as I started listening to others stories I found out this was not true. That in reality crossdressers far outnumber transsexuals and in fact transsexuality is pretty rare.

The thing is though, most transsexuals, like me, start out identifying as crossdressers. I am not sure if this is because of ignorance or denial, but few start out directly on a path of transition.

Anyway, this is a really good topic and I personally have really enjoyed reading the posts of my sisters.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[CJ]

Hi all,

First things first. Please, please, please, you must remember this: I am NOT a therapist. I work with people who suffer from so-called mental illnesses, true, but I do this as a community-based worker with no other credentials than the fact that I've managed to pull through a few (not all) of my own emotional difficulties with some modicum of success AND that I have a strong (I'd say "undeniable") desire to help others through their own "dark night of the soul." That's it. Nothing more. Our own Sally from Australia, or Marlena, or several other members here, are eminently more qualified than I am by dint of their more exhaustive study of this matter.

Having said this, my "expertise" as a transgendered person is neither better nor worse than anyone else's--it's just mine. And that's what matters. Each and every single person here is an expert in the matter of his or her own life and identity. We all express our viewpoints and opinions through the filter of our life experience (and, it goes without saying, these are shaped by that very experience).

As a mental health worker, yes, I've had to take into account what the DSM has to say about emotional distress, about the describing of it, about the "curing" of it. Especially when--if I'm to make this more personal--it comes to Gender Identity Disorder. It's my understanding that most psychiatrists and professionals are lately of the opinion that a large part of the emotional distress felt by people suffering from GID is due to the guilt incurred because of social disapproval and a pervasive (and irrational) moral opprobrium. Crossdressing is, at its worst (in this view), merely a form of benign neurosis, a way of coping with an atypical psychosexual development. It's harmless. Mental health professionals are starting to realize that the behaviour is harmless and, like homosexuality, the place gender-variant self-expression holds in the DSM is on the verge of being re-evaluated in order to diminish the stigma associated with it. Being gender-variant will, eventually, be considered just another way human beings are, well, human beings in this world.

As social mores become less rigid (sounds utopian, I know), people with atypical personalities or identities will undoubtedly still, like anyone else, have their share of troubles in the world but the tendency to label them "ill" or "abnormal" will lessen. Those who believe it impossible for social customs to ever change are actually part of the problem, not part of the solution. Again, Eleanor Roosevelt: "Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent." I say: do not give that consent.

As far as the distinction between knowing you are a woman and thinking you want to be a woman, this has more relevance to the lives of transsexuals, a subject on which I must remain silent as it's not part of my experience. I recognize myself, like Lydia, as someone who just wants to BE, regardless of any application of official (or officious) labels. At this point in my life, I certainly don't think of myself as a transsexual and there are even times when I don't think of myself as gender-variant at all. It fluctuates; it isn't fixed. Though I recognize that I have a "core" personality (that I feel is, more often than not, only marginally related to my gender identity), the "trappings" that surround my core identity are eminently malleable and fluid. On the subject of trannsexualism, I'll defer to those who've been grappling with this specific aspect of their identity much more than I have.

This is a fascinating thread, Zippy. Thanks for starting it. And thanks to all who've participated in it.

Love,
CJ

[KathyB]

First, I offer my apologies for mis-understanding and mis-stating CJ's professional experience in this realm. Secondly, THANK YOU for offering your personal opinion and experience in this matter. Thirdly, another huge THANK YOU to Virginia for her contribution. So long as we all know what we live and feel is our own personal experience, we can freely offer it to others for their consideration.

I'm approaching that slippery slope area of almost-50 where I know what I want, and I fully understand why I want it. I'm not actively taking anti-androgens or hormones right now (I did for several months about 18 months ago) but my need to be more female is expressing itself on an almost daily basis, and very strongly when it does. It's not frequent or strong because there wasn't much "me"-time during the renovation or the year of moving back into the new house and making it home. Fortunately, I understand this is nothing unusual for many of us. Where I have a problem is balancing the stronger need with my personal life at home. I can honestly say that's an area where I'm envious of Elizabeth and Virginia. They've both been extremely fortunate to find wonderful, loving, and understanding women in their lives. It's not the be-all, end-all, comprehensive fairy-tale solution to a life of never-ending happiness -- I know that. But it's certainly got to make life a lot happier in the long run.

Does anyone know where Morpheus and Neo are with those blue and red pills? I think I could really use one of the blue ones, right about now.

[SilverLady(SO)]

I can honestly say that's an area where I'm envious of Elizabeth and Virginia. They've both been extremely fortunate to find wonderful, loving, and understanding women in their lives. It's not the be-all, end-all, comprehensive fairy-tale solution to a life of never-ending happiness -- I know that. But it's certainly got to make life a lot happier in the long run.

Well, I knew from the very beginning that Virginia was very much a part of B's life, and there was no putting her into the closet - nor would I ever want to do that. I love Virginia, and I love B - equally, not one more than the other - and I enjoy being with both of them. However, if I need or wish to spend more time with one over the other, all I have to do is say so.

I really do have the best of both worlds, and I'm sure that Raven(SO) does, too, as do Lisa(SO), Stormy(SO), MLee(SO), and Curly(SO), just to name a few. I do not mean to exclude any other happy couples here, these are just the few names that immediately came to mind!!

Zippy - - Virginia, B, and I owe you a world of thanks for your hand in this. If it wasn't for you and I meeting up online and becoming friends, and you encouraging me to join the forum to continue my education, then Virginia and I would never have met and fallen head-over-heels in love.



- SL

[Kendra Lynn]

Hello all: Very thoughtful posts in this thread.
I enjoy "dressing" and am not likely to go any further than make-up, wigs, clothing, bra stuffed with sox, and padded briefs.
Certainly going all out for SRS would be expensive and probably entail some health risks.
I do not feel that I was "born in the wrong body," but clearly there are aspects of the "female experience" I do enjoy.
I would like to find close gg friends who would also enjoy my "cross-dressing."
There have been a few times when I was out "dressed" with male friends and was tempted to play the "girl" role a bit, but did not. That just seems like a murky area which is best avoided.
The main quest for me now, besides looking as good as possible when "dressed," and further developing the hippie/preppie/nice girl style, is to be taken seriously when "dressed." This means interacting with non TG's at non TG specific events. I have made some steps in that direction-- "hippie cheerleader" is a low level public figure-- I've attended numerous protests in that guise. I also now go "dressed" to places other than Hollywood Fashion Wigs; I've attended several music events and shopped at places like BORDERS and BURLINGTON COAT FACTORY in downtown Silver Spring, GAP OUTLET, ROSS, and OLSSON's BOOKS & MUSIC in old town Alexandria, and the several vintage clothing stores in Takoma Park, Maryland.
I am aware that some people in the D.C. music community are not comfortable dealing with me "dressed"-- some don't care, some are curious, and a few could be described as "supportive."
My definition of a "safe space" is one in which people know I'm a cross dresser (I don't change my voice much-- anyone would know what's going on if I actually interact with them) and either don't care or are supportive.
The former TOWER RECORDS store in Washington, D.C. became a "safe space" for me and it's one of the reasons I miss it.
That's about it from here for now.
Peace'n'Luv to all-- Kendra Lynn

[Charlotte]

Zippy, may I suggest you google "Autogynephilia". This is a controversial term first introduced by a Dr. Blanchard to describe why so many late blooming male to female transsexuals are heterosexual and only want to maintain or pursue a relationship with genetic women. This is in contrast to other male to female transsexuals who are homosexual and only want to pursure a relationship with straight men.

In essence Blanchard's theory is that autogynephilic men love women so much that they eventually want to become women. I have come to believe the description more or less fits my situation.

[Absaroka]

A very interesting thread with lots of varied individual reactions, which is what is so great about this forum.

I'd love to be magically transformed into a woman for a week or so, just to see what it's like. But surgery and hormones-mess with the body I have and like? Absolutely no desire for that. And if that hypothetical transformation had a chance it could be permanent I wouldn't be interested.

I like the idea that I just like women. Like something about them so much I sometimes want to be like them. Someone jokingly said once that I am not getting in touch with my inner woman, rather I am getting in touch with my outer woman.

I'm just a crossdresser. Nothing more, nothing less. And not even getting a thrill from reading the fashion and beauty section here anymore. Now I mostly come to this forum because I like hearing what's going on in peoples heads, plus the chance to hear myself type of course.



Absaroka