And all this time I thought that admin was raking in the booty!
I may have to send in a donation....
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Danielle Marie
City Manager of Largo Florida
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Danielle La Belle
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MSNBC Interview:
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Newsweek.com
Q&A: Fla. Transsexual Talks About Firing
Largo, Fla., city manager Steven Stanton faces firing after it was revealed that he plans to become a woman.
WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Lynn Waddell
Newsweek
Updated: 6:06 p.m. ET March 3, 2007
March 2, 2007 - Last week, Largo, Fla., city manager Steven Stanton jolted townspeople with the admission that he was a transsexual who was planning to undergo sex-reassignment surgery. Residents flooded city hall with e-mails and phone calls, mostly calling for his ouster. On Tuesday night, the city commission gathered for a tumultuous 3½-hour meeting packed with both supporters and opponents of Stanton. In the end, commissioners voted 5-2 to pass a resolution that initiated the process of firing him. As Stanton, 48, ponders his next move (he has five days to appeal), he spoke with NEWSWEEK's Lynn Waddell. Excerpts:
NEWSWEEK: What have you been doing since the meeting Tuesday night?
Steven Stanton: Other than talking to reporters? [Laughs.] I’ve been talking to citizens, people in Largo suggesting I sue their city. I’ve had 40 people in the past hour demanding, "You challenge this" … In the last seven days I probably have gotten seven to eight hours of sleep. I didn’t sleep at all Tuesday night.
Were you surprised by the outcome of the meeting?
I never anticipated that I would be fired. In the same sense I understand that the city commissioners are under extreme pressure. The city has almost been held under capture by the most outrageous, meanest e-mails generated primarily by three different churches. When you hear from that many people, whatever it is, you want to get rid of it. The difficult thing is I love my organization. I love my city. I can’t believe I’m being fired. I’ve worked for a lot of cities. Largo is the dream job.
Do you worry about losing friends at city hall?
That’s the second biggest aspect of discomfort to me. I have hired every department director who’s worked for the staff except one. So the management staff reflects my professional philosophy, as well as all being personal friends.
The city commissioners [who voted to fire me] said I have no followers. Who the hell has been hugging me all week? That’s why I planned to talk to each one individually [before the news got out]. You need to give yourself time and need to get some information and know what [being transgender] is about. The first time you get that information you do feel violated. It creates a very strange anger. My wife, she went through that herself.
How has your wife, who has known about your gender identity for 2½ years, been handling this?
She has been super. It’s not that she approves of this thing at all. We as a family are gonna have to confront and deal with this ourselves. We didn’t know if I was going to have a job, or if I was going to be able to get a job. She is going back to school [to get] a real good job. [At this point in the interview, flowers are delivered to Stanton’s house. The note reads, "Be courageous."] I don’t know who they are from. I’ve never gotten flowers before. This [kind of response from the community] has been happening.
Have any religious groups or people who spoke against you at the meetings confronted you directly?
They have thrown eggs on my car. Someone sent me a nasty porno card. The biggest thing was going to a public meeting to hear so many who professed to have a close relation with God be so vicious in their loathing—particularly, the spewing out of hate [from] preachers.
Let’s go back to last week. The St. Petersburg Times contacted you on Feb. 20, and you asked them to hold off until you could talk to your 13-year-old son. They agreed to give you some time. What happened next?
They weren’t going to run the story until [Feb. 22]. Then they stuck it on the Internet [on Feb. 21]. I wasn’t aware of it until I pulled into the parking lot [at work] that afternoon and people were telling me “You need to get out of the building. There’s a press conference in 10 minutes about you.” All of a sudden we were inundated with TV cameras, print media. They were there with pen and papers and microphones, all demanding to be fed. Under our plan, a lot of people should have known first. It was not on my schedule. It was on the Times’s schedule.
How has your son handled this?
He’s been super. We talked about love, what it means to be courageous. He thinks courageous means climbing tall buildings to save someone. I tried to explain that being courageous is being willing to stand when others are willing to sit. To stand up to do what’s right in the face of adversity is showing profound leadership.
My son has not missed a day of school. School was made aware in case there was any potential disruption or teasing. One of the things that was driving my family timeline was to get Travis out of the community. He and my wife were going to fly to Kansas [in May].
Some city commissioners criticized you for only informing a few city employees, the transition team, of your decision. Who did you tell and why only them?
A former city commissioner, the mayor [Pat Gerard], her husband who is in media adverting and was advising us on how to control the media, the fire chief, police chief and the human-resource director. We had been contacting a half dozen media-organization consultants to learn how to deal with workplace transitions, to help answer people’s questions like, “What do we call them now? Where are they going to bathroom?”
Who else knew other than your family and those at the city?
Medical staff.
Who do you think leaked the information to the press?
I don’t know.
Do you know any other transsexuals?
I know two retired people who are transsexuals. Since this came out I’ve been contacted by people from national associations.
When did you decide to make the transition?
It wasn’t something I wanted to do. It was something I had to do. Nobody can imagine the turmoil. Around 2005 I realized, “I can’t continue living part time.” A couple of years ago we had a police officer who committed suicide. I did not understand how anybody could take their life until this thing started creeping in on me. You can’t go back, and you’re too afraid to go forward. When I started thinking that way is when I realized I needed to re-evaluate my life.
When did you know that you were different?
Probably around age 6. When you’re that young you don’t know what you’re feeling, you just know it’s something you should not be feeling.
Did you talk about it with anyone?
Absolutely not. I knew this was so wrong, I knew it was wrong to be thinking about it.
Who have you had to relate this to now other than your son?
My dad found out. I’m not talking to him. He’s adjusting to it, too. You can imagine a phone call a son makes to his dad, “How’s it going, Dad? You know I forgot to mention I’m a transsexual.” He asked me if I was sure. I apologized. He said he appreciated the phone call: “Good luck and I’ll talk to you later.”
What are you plans now?
This is such a process. I’ve not been fired yet. I’m on paid administrative leave, and I’ve not decided yet to appeal. Initially I said I would not appeal or do anything, but I never anticipated so many people calling up from the community, saying “Please promise me that you’ll fight this.”
I understand you are meeting with Karen Doering, senior counsel for the National Center for Lesbian Rights.
[Yes.] There’s the interest of Steve Stanton, then there may be the greater issue ... Does the employer have the right to fire [a transgender person]? It is not unlawful on the federal level at least.
Does the city of Largo have an ordinance against discrimination?
Some cities pass a citywide ordinance that requires people in businesses not to discriminate based on sexual orientation as well as gender identification. The city of Largo considered that a couple of years then decided not to adopt it because the same people who spoke out against me spoke out against it. The city did adopt a policy that we don’t discriminate against anything other than [on the basis of] job performance.
When were you planning to make the transformation to being Susan Stanton?
I was in the stage to begin the real-life test [when he would begin dressing as a woman]. I had been waiting to do this in May. My wife was going to be completing her formal, clinical [medical] training. Then it was going to be moved up to March, which wouldn’t give me much time. I’ve been going through heavy hormonal therapy the past two years.
So many people have been focusing on surgery [which Stanton says he would pay for]. Gender reassignment is something I ultimately want to do, but not until I go through the medically recommended procedure of a year of counseling. It’s a good year away.
Have you gone out in public dressed like a woman?
Not locally. I have gone to other cities for personal business.
So what do you call yourself, a transsexual? Transgender?
Personally I hate the label transsexual. But what you do call it? Most people know it as this. I just want to be myself. After living 47 years as a male I doubt whether I will ever be a woman. I just want to be who I am, and there’s not a good word for that.
What kind of physical changes have you experienced since taking hormones? Has it changed your voice?
A little bit it has. I’ve never had a deep voice. It’s really more intonation, the way people use their voice. I used to have more defined muscles, which I lost. You lose a lot of body mass. I find myself unable to control my emotions the way I used to do.
There are secondary sexual characteristics that impact your body as well. I noticed this pain I was getting in my back. It was after I had been taking the hormones about six months. I was running and my chest was in terrible pain. I went to the doctor and after the exam, he said, “I assume you realize if you are running you need to be wearing a sports bra.”
What about looking like a woman?
You know dressing like a woman is more difficult. That’s an issue because I need to look professional. I’ve always been a sharp dresser, looking really professional. Women have so much more variety in the things they wear. Men don’t think about these things.
Have you talked to your wife about these things?
No. We typically have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.
Are you going to stay together?
We haven’t finalized it yet. It’s extremely difficult for both of us. She wants a full-time person in her life. We just haven’t talked about it. Obviously we have some issues as a family we are going to have to work out. It will be difficult whatever the outcome. We’re not doing a divorce now, but it’s one of those questions we will have to confront.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17420981/
© 2007 MSNBC.com
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Danielle Marie
MSN Tracking Image
MSNBC.com
Newsweek.com
Q&A: Fla. Transsexual Talks About Firing
Largo, Fla., city manager Steven Stanton faces firing after it was revealed that he plans to become a woman.
WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Lynn Waddell
Newsweek
Updated: 6:06 p.m. ET March 3, 2007
March 2, 2007 - Last week, Largo, Fla., city manager Steven Stanton jolted townspeople with the admission that he was a transsexual who was planning to undergo sex-reassignment surgery. Residents flooded city hall with e-mails and phone calls, mostly calling for his ouster. On Tuesday night, the city commission gathered for a tumultuous 3½-hour meeting packed with both supporters and opponents of Stanton. In the end, commissioners voted 5-2 to pass a resolution that initiated the process of firing him. As Stanton, 48, ponders his next move (he has five days to appeal), he spoke with NEWSWEEK's Lynn Waddell. Excerpts:
NEWSWEEK: What have you been doing since the meeting Tuesday night?
Steven Stanton: Other than talking to reporters? [Laughs.] I’ve been talking to citizens, people in Largo suggesting I sue their city. I’ve had 40 people in the past hour demanding, "You challenge this" … In the last seven days I probably have gotten seven to eight hours of sleep. I didn’t sleep at all Tuesday night.
Were you surprised by the outcome of the meeting?
I never anticipated that I would be fired. In the same sense I understand that the city commissioners are under extreme pressure. The city has almost been held under capture by the most outrageous, meanest e-mails generated primarily by three different churches. When you hear from that many people, whatever it is, you want to get rid of it. The difficult thing is I love my organization. I love my city. I can’t believe I’m being fired. I’ve worked for a lot of cities. Largo is the dream job.
Do you worry about losing friends at city hall?
That’s the second biggest aspect of discomfort to me. I have hired every department director who’s worked for the staff except one. So the management staff reflects my professional philosophy, as well as all being personal friends.
The city commissioners [who voted to fire me] said I have no followers. Who the hell has been hugging me all week? That’s why I planned to talk to each one individually [before the news got out]. You need to give yourself time and need to get some information and know what [being transgender] is about. The first time you get that information you do feel violated. It creates a very strange anger. My wife, she went through that herself.
How has your wife, who has known about your gender identity for 2½ years, been handling this?
She has been super. It’s not that she approves of this thing at all. We as a family are gonna have to confront and deal with this ourselves. We didn’t know if I was going to have a job, or if I was going to be able to get a job. She is going back to school [to get] a real good job. [At this point in the interview, flowers are delivered to Stanton’s house. The note reads, "Be courageous."] I don’t know who they are from. I’ve never gotten flowers before. This [kind of response from the community] has been happening.
Have any religious groups or people who spoke against you at the meetings confronted you directly?
They have thrown eggs on my car. Someone sent me a nasty porno card. The biggest thing was going to a public meeting to hear so many who professed to have a close relation with God be so vicious in their loathing—particularly, the spewing out of hate [from] preachers.
Let’s go back to last week. The St. Petersburg Times contacted you on Feb. 20, and you asked them to hold off until you could talk to your 13-year-old son. They agreed to give you some time. What happened next?
They weren’t going to run the story until [Feb. 22]. Then they stuck it on the Internet [on Feb. 21]. I wasn’t aware of it until I pulled into the parking lot [at work] that afternoon and people were telling me “You need to get out of the building. There’s a press conference in 10 minutes about you.” All of a sudden we were inundated with TV cameras, print media. They were there with pen and papers and microphones, all demanding to be fed. Under our plan, a lot of people should have known first. It was not on my schedule. It was on the Times’s schedule.
How has your son handled this?
He’s been super. We talked about love, what it means to be courageous. He thinks courageous means climbing tall buildings to save someone. I tried to explain that being courageous is being willing to stand when others are willing to sit. To stand up to do what’s right in the face of adversity is showing profound leadership.
My son has not missed a day of school. School was made aware in case there was any potential disruption or teasing. One of the things that was driving my family timeline was to get Travis out of the community. He and my wife were going to fly to Kansas [in May].
Some city commissioners criticized you for only informing a few city employees, the transition team, of your decision. Who did you tell and why only them?
A former city commissioner, the mayor [Pat Gerard], her husband who is in media adverting and was advising us on how to control the media, the fire chief, police chief and the human-resource director. We had been contacting a half dozen media-organization consultants to learn how to deal with workplace transitions, to help answer people’s questions like, “What do we call them now? Where are they going to bathroom?”
Who else knew other than your family and those at the city?
Medical staff.
Who do you think leaked the information to the press?
I don’t know.
Do you know any other transsexuals?
I know two retired people who are transsexuals. Since this came out I’ve been contacted by people from national associations.
When did you decide to make the transition?
It wasn’t something I wanted to do. It was something I had to do. Nobody can imagine the turmoil. Around 2005 I realized, “I can’t continue living part time.” A couple of years ago we had a police officer who committed suicide. I did not understand how anybody could take their life until this thing started creeping in on me. You can’t go back, and you’re too afraid to go forward. When I started thinking that way is when I realized I needed to re-evaluate my life.
When did you know that you were different?
Probably around age 6. When you’re that young you don’t know what you’re feeling, you just know it’s something you should not be feeling.
Did you talk about it with anyone?
Absolutely not. I knew this was so wrong, I knew it was wrong to be thinking about it.
Who have you had to relate this to now other than your son?
My dad found out. I’m not talking to him. He’s adjusting to it, too. You can imagine a phone call a son makes to his dad, “How’s it going, Dad? You know I forgot to mention I’m a transsexual.” He asked me if I was sure. I apologized. He said he appreciated the phone call: “Good luck and I’ll talk to you later.”
What are you plans now?
This is such a process. I’ve not been fired yet. I’m on paid administrative leave, and I’ve not decided yet to appeal. Initially I said I would not appeal or do anything, but I never anticipated so many people calling up from the community, saying “Please promise me that you’ll fight this.”
I understand you are meeting with Karen Doering, senior counsel for the National Center for Lesbian Rights.
[Yes.] There’s the interest of Steve Stanton, then there may be the greater issue ... Does the employer have the right to fire [a transgender person]? It is not unlawful on the federal level at least.
Does the city of Largo have an ordinance against discrimination?
Some cities pass a citywide ordinance that requires people in businesses not to discriminate based on sexual orientation as well as gender identification. The city of Largo considered that a couple of years then decided not to adopt it because the same people who spoke out against me spoke out against it. The city did adopt a policy that we don’t discriminate against anything other than [on the basis of] job performance.
When were you planning to make the transformation to being Susan Stanton?
I was in the stage to begin the real-life test [when he would begin dressing as a woman]. I had been waiting to do this in May. My wife was going to be completing her formal, clinical [medical] training. Then it was going to be moved up to March, which wouldn’t give me much time. I’ve been going through heavy hormonal therapy the past two years.
So many people have been focusing on surgery [which Stanton says he would pay for]. Gender reassignment is something I ultimately want to do, but not until I go through the medically recommended procedure of a year of counseling. It’s a good year away.
Have you gone out in public dressed like a woman?
Not locally. I have gone to other cities for personal business.
So what do you call yourself, a transsexual? Transgender?
Personally I hate the label transsexual. But what you do call it? Most people know it as this. I just want to be myself. After living 47 years as a male I doubt whether I will ever be a woman. I just want to be who I am, and there’s not a good word for that.
What kind of physical changes have you experienced since taking hormones? Has it changed your voice?
A little bit it has. I’ve never had a deep voice. It’s really more intonation, the way people use their voice. I used to have more defined muscles, which I lost. You lose a lot of body mass. I find myself unable to control my emotions the way I used to do.
There are secondary sexual characteristics that impact your body as well. I noticed this pain I was getting in my back. It was after I had been taking the hormones about six months. I was running and my chest was in terrible pain. I went to the doctor and after the exam, he said, “I assume you realize if you are running you need to be wearing a sports bra.”
What about looking like a woman?
You know dressing like a woman is more difficult. That’s an issue because I need to look professional. I’ve always been a sharp dresser, looking really professional. Women have so much more variety in the things they wear. Men don’t think about these things.
Have you talked to your wife about these things?
No. We typically have a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.
Are you going to stay together?
We haven’t finalized it yet. It’s extremely difficult for both of us. She wants a full-time person in her life. We just haven’t talked about it. Obviously we have some issues as a family we are going to have to work out. It will be difficult whatever the outcome. We’re not doing a divorce now, but it’s one of those questions we will have to confront.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17420981/
© 2007 MSNBC.com
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Reprinted from Chicago Newspaper Blog:
Monday, March 12, 2007
In this Florida city, sex change a firing offense - News of bureaucrat's impending switch from Steve to Susan proves too much for City Hall
By Tere Figueras Negrete, McClatchy
Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune
Published March 12, 2007
LARGO, Fla. -- For months, Steve Stanton, the longtime city manager of this small Gulf Coast Florida town, scripted his plans to tell his employees, city commissioners and his own child of a major change in his life.
Stanton was preparing to have a sex-change operation. He was to be called Susan, no longer Steve. True to his bureaucratic temperament, he drafted an eight-page transition plan.
Then came questions from a local newspaper reporter.
What he hoped would be a low-key affair within City Hall became national news.
His life and that of his family would never be the same.
Stanton, 48, thought that, besides his new name, little else would change in the day-to-day operations of a city he had managed for 14 years.
What Stanton didn't know was that someone in his selected circle of confidants leaked his plans to a reporter at the St. Petersburg Times.
The story appeared Feb. 21 on the newspaper's Web site.
Soon after, all of Largo, population 76,000, learned that their top bureaucrat was undergoing hormone treatments and therapy in preparation for a sex-change operation.
Within hours, City Hall was besieged by television cameras.
Stanton hadn't told his father, who lives in the small Panhandle city of DeFuniak Springs, or his son, who was still in school.
He called his dad less than 20 minutes before a televised news conference that day.
His reaction: "Stunned," Stanton said.
He waited until later that evening to call a family meeting with his wife, Donna, who had known for years, and their son, Travis, 13. Stanton said he's not attracted to men and that he and his wife have no plans to divorce. "But who knows what the future holds?"
He chose the name Susan because that was what his late mother would have named him had he been a girl.
The story quickly spread far beyond Largo.
Stanton fielded calls from CNN, USA Today and The New York Times.
Most Largo city commissioners were aghast.
Faced with a barrage of calls and e-mails--many from the city's close-knit religious community--they voted 5-2 last month to fire Stanton, saying they doubted his integrity and ability to lead the city and its 1,200 employees.
He's on paid leave until the termination, which requires a second commission vote to become final. He plans to fight his dismissal.
When people think of transsexuals, they typically think of people on shows like Jerry Springer. It conjures up all kinds of scary images," Stanton said.
"I was never going to come in to work in a pink miniskirt and pumps."
At the City Hall meeting, more than 400 people turned out, some voicing their support while others passionately called for his immediate ouster.
"I think he was unprepared for the magnitude of what has happened," said Largo Mayor Pat Gerard, one of Stanton's most vocal allies and one of two commission members to vote in his favor.
Since the vote, national advocacy groups have rallied around Stanton, holding up his firing as a case for anti-discrimination laws intended to protect transgendered people.
Largo itself remains polarized.
"If this had been Los Angeles or San Francisco, maybe it wouldn't have been a big deal," said James Melton, a 35-year-old construction worker who supports Stanton's firing.
Stanton himself got a mixed reaction. He got a pornographic greeting card, and his car was pelted with eggs. He also got calls from well-wishers and bouquets of flowers from anonymous supporters.
"There certainly was a rush to judgment," Stanton said of his firing.
Stanton, careful to keep his family out of the public eye, said his son has taken the firestorm in stride.
The day after the news broke, Travis insisted on going to school.
posted by Carlos T Mock at 9:54 AM
end of post
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Monday, March 12, 2007
In this Florida city, sex change a firing offense - News of bureaucrat's impending switch from Steve to Susan proves too much for City Hall
By Tere Figueras Negrete, McClatchy
Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune
Published March 12, 2007
LARGO, Fla. -- For months, Steve Stanton, the longtime city manager of this small Gulf Coast Florida town, scripted his plans to tell his employees, city commissioners and his own child of a major change in his life.
Stanton was preparing to have a sex-change operation. He was to be called Susan, no longer Steve. True to his bureaucratic temperament, he drafted an eight-page transition plan.
Then came questions from a local newspaper reporter.
What he hoped would be a low-key affair within City Hall became national news.
His life and that of his family would never be the same.
Stanton, 48, thought that, besides his new name, little else would change in the day-to-day operations of a city he had managed for 14 years.
What Stanton didn't know was that someone in his selected circle of confidants leaked his plans to a reporter at the St. Petersburg Times.
The story appeared Feb. 21 on the newspaper's Web site.
Soon after, all of Largo, population 76,000, learned that their top bureaucrat was undergoing hormone treatments and therapy in preparation for a sex-change operation.
Within hours, City Hall was besieged by television cameras.
Stanton hadn't told his father, who lives in the small Panhandle city of DeFuniak Springs, or his son, who was still in school.
He called his dad less than 20 minutes before a televised news conference that day.
His reaction: "Stunned," Stanton said.
He waited until later that evening to call a family meeting with his wife, Donna, who had known for years, and their son, Travis, 13. Stanton said he's not attracted to men and that he and his wife have no plans to divorce. "But who knows what the future holds?"
He chose the name Susan because that was what his late mother would have named him had he been a girl.
The story quickly spread far beyond Largo.
Stanton fielded calls from CNN, USA Today and The New York Times.
Most Largo city commissioners were aghast.
Faced with a barrage of calls and e-mails--many from the city's close-knit religious community--they voted 5-2 last month to fire Stanton, saying they doubted his integrity and ability to lead the city and its 1,200 employees.
He's on paid leave until the termination, which requires a second commission vote to become final. He plans to fight his dismissal.
When people think of transsexuals, they typically think of people on shows like Jerry Springer. It conjures up all kinds of scary images," Stanton said.
"I was never going to come in to work in a pink miniskirt and pumps."
At the City Hall meeting, more than 400 people turned out, some voicing their support while others passionately called for his immediate ouster.
"I think he was unprepared for the magnitude of what has happened," said Largo Mayor Pat Gerard, one of Stanton's most vocal allies and one of two commission members to vote in his favor.
Since the vote, national advocacy groups have rallied around Stanton, holding up his firing as a case for anti-discrimination laws intended to protect transgendered people.
Largo itself remains polarized.
"If this had been Los Angeles or San Francisco, maybe it wouldn't have been a big deal," said James Melton, a 35-year-old construction worker who supports Stanton's firing.
Stanton himself got a mixed reaction. He got a pornographic greeting card, and his car was pelted with eggs. He also got calls from well-wishers and bouquets of flowers from anonymous supporters.
"There certainly was a rush to judgment," Stanton said of his firing.
Stanton, careful to keep his family out of the public eye, said his son has taken the firestorm in stride.
The day after the news broke, Travis insisted on going to school.
posted by Carlos T Mock at 9:54 AM
end of post
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!
-
DeeDee
- Miss Golden Goddess
- Posts: 591
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:45 pm
- Location: South Florida
- Contact:
I think the most significent thing Susan said (and I prefer to call her that) was that originally she was going out quietly. The support she has recieved from many sources overwhelmed her, and she decided to fight her dismissal. A number of people here have responded directly to the articles, including me. When I first posted this, titled "Nice..." it was nice. Then the local churches got involved and pressured the elected types. Not to get into religion (and sent off to never never land), but they are the most un-christian people around (sorry). God probably never even spoke to them about TS stuff. Heck, she/he (god) made us and we sure know how intense it can be. Shame on them for thinking god is a bigot like them. Ok..a short vent......but I do wish Ms Stanton the best..and now she is a pioneer. Best of luck to you Susan
DeeDee
DeeDee
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Hi Girls:
Everything and that is a point in this entry (thing as in physical) , everything that we seem to talk about is in the physical world for the most part. Religion is the exception. There are 7 major, organized religions in the world. Today, there is much controversy over the fact that psychology scientists now believe that there is a small area in the brain that conjures up our primitive at best, concepts of a higher being.
What they are saying is that we may be just influenced by this part of the brain into creating God. So with that new study in mind, it shows that as humans, we cannot be sure of anything outside of the physical realm that we identify with today.
Physics has always been of great interest to me. The study of what makes up our universe is such a great puzzle and there are so many theories floating around today that makes it a joy to study part-time.
Most scientists will agree that there is something greater behind the curtain of the universe. Things are just too mathematical to be random events. They follow a process and to me that is great programming by an even greater programmer, God - [Creator].
No religion here. Just a belief in the evidence presented so far. We may not understand in it’s entirety, evolution of man, but regardless, there is a plan at work that simply exceeds our ability to put it into physical terms.
We try to reason this concept of God, but, every time an injustice happens here that we judge as being “in the hands of God,” we quickly judge God harshly. Why not save all the babies that die every year from a variety of sources? It is easy to ask this all time question and of course we have a variety of wonderfully religious answers. All carefully worded by those that have convinced themselves they are here to guide us with the help of the written word in several forms.
I have always liked the phrase, “judge not, least ye be judged.” So for me, I go with the flow. I do not need to trounce on someone’s misfortune nor do I need to make sure that you believe what I believe.
Ms. Stanton has enough on her plate without others placing their values and beliefs on the back of her wagon. Of course this is typical. There will always be those that enjoy the position of the “bully pulpit.” From there they claim to see all, be all, and of course, are in commune with God. Anytime I have been confronted with such a person, I just tell myself that they are “off their med’s,” and having a bad day.
We need these people DeeDee to remind us of what we believe in and what we need to do to support our friends. Without those people we would not have a point of reference to avoid. Take a perfectly formed ball. Cut out a piece and then roll the ball. It does not flow smoothly anymore after taking out a piece. Life is that ball and we need every inch of it to make things flow. Smoothly, perhaps not as we see it today. But, it really is a rather unique process we have living on this planet. We have not found any others like her to date.
This planet sits in such a fine repose orbiting our sun, it is not by happenstance as some may wish us to believe. There is a rhyme to reason, we just do not have all the pieces of the puzzle yet and may never have. After all, once that puzzle is solved, well, there would be little to look forward to here on earth in the way of science.
The small church congregations that spoke out are the extremists of organized religion. There will be others to follow that are pro-Stanton as a person. It just takes time for the cream to rise to the top!
The funny thing is this. I have transitioned over a 7 year period to the point that I now realize that it is not what you see in me, it is what I feel and I can carry that felling around inside without showing it in a predominant way on the outside and still be comfortable.
I no longer feel the need to express myself in such a physical way as to create an un-necessary disturbance about me. On any give day, without wig, lipstick or bangles, I am Danielle Marie La Belle! I can honestly say that I have stepped up to the next level of identification and only recently have I become aware of this.
Sometimes it is right in front of us and we just miss seeing it!
Susan Stanton over time will rise to that level as well and the people around her will be comfortable with [her] new presentation.
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Everything and that is a point in this entry (thing as in physical) , everything that we seem to talk about is in the physical world for the most part. Religion is the exception. There are 7 major, organized religions in the world. Today, there is much controversy over the fact that psychology scientists now believe that there is a small area in the brain that conjures up our primitive at best, concepts of a higher being.
What they are saying is that we may be just influenced by this part of the brain into creating God. So with that new study in mind, it shows that as humans, we cannot be sure of anything outside of the physical realm that we identify with today.
Physics has always been of great interest to me. The study of what makes up our universe is such a great puzzle and there are so many theories floating around today that makes it a joy to study part-time.
Most scientists will agree that there is something greater behind the curtain of the universe. Things are just too mathematical to be random events. They follow a process and to me that is great programming by an even greater programmer, God - [Creator].
No religion here. Just a belief in the evidence presented so far. We may not understand in it’s entirety, evolution of man, but regardless, there is a plan at work that simply exceeds our ability to put it into physical terms.
We try to reason this concept of God, but, every time an injustice happens here that we judge as being “in the hands of God,” we quickly judge God harshly. Why not save all the babies that die every year from a variety of sources? It is easy to ask this all time question and of course we have a variety of wonderfully religious answers. All carefully worded by those that have convinced themselves they are here to guide us with the help of the written word in several forms.
I have always liked the phrase, “judge not, least ye be judged.” So for me, I go with the flow. I do not need to trounce on someone’s misfortune nor do I need to make sure that you believe what I believe.
Ms. Stanton has enough on her plate without others placing their values and beliefs on the back of her wagon. Of course this is typical. There will always be those that enjoy the position of the “bully pulpit.” From there they claim to see all, be all, and of course, are in commune with God. Anytime I have been confronted with such a person, I just tell myself that they are “off their med’s,” and having a bad day.
We need these people DeeDee to remind us of what we believe in and what we need to do to support our friends. Without those people we would not have a point of reference to avoid. Take a perfectly formed ball. Cut out a piece and then roll the ball. It does not flow smoothly anymore after taking out a piece. Life is that ball and we need every inch of it to make things flow. Smoothly, perhaps not as we see it today. But, it really is a rather unique process we have living on this planet. We have not found any others like her to date.
This planet sits in such a fine repose orbiting our sun, it is not by happenstance as some may wish us to believe. There is a rhyme to reason, we just do not have all the pieces of the puzzle yet and may never have. After all, once that puzzle is solved, well, there would be little to look forward to here on earth in the way of science.
The small church congregations that spoke out are the extremists of organized religion. There will be others to follow that are pro-Stanton as a person. It just takes time for the cream to rise to the top!
The funny thing is this. I have transitioned over a 7 year period to the point that I now realize that it is not what you see in me, it is what I feel and I can carry that felling around inside without showing it in a predominant way on the outside and still be comfortable.
I no longer feel the need to express myself in such a physical way as to create an un-necessary disturbance about me. On any give day, without wig, lipstick or bangles, I am Danielle Marie La Belle! I can honestly say that I have stepped up to the next level of identification and only recently have I become aware of this.
Sometimes it is right in front of us and we just miss seeing it!
Susan Stanton over time will rise to that level as well and the people around her will be comfortable with [her] new presentation.
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!
-
Jeannie
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: Connecticut
Organized religion. Is that like military intelligence?
Hi Danielle
Love your posts Hon. You always write beautifully, make perfect sense and are so logical. I think we are twins separated at birth.
Lets just say there is a Creator. I think that human beings have been created over and over again for trillions of years.
The Creator made us,gave us a beautiful planet that had everything we could ever imagine to survive forever. We were given brains that could think and reason and know right from wrong. The Big Guy/Girl is a hands off manager. We are given all the tools we need and we are allowed to run with it.
The Creator lets us make our own way and never interfears but is always a good listener. We take all the gifts we were given and completely screw everything up and end up being the cause of our own extinction.
Every few million years the Creator says" I think I'll give them another shot. Maybe they learned from their mistakes." Fat chance Danielle.
The late great Bill Hicks did a routine about the Creation. He said" On the seventh day our Creator sat back and relaxed looking down on all the wonderful things created then suddenly realized there was glaring mistake and said ...... "Oh my Me! .....I left pot plants everywhere! Now I have to create Conservative Republicans! I knew I shouldn't of smoked that second bone on the sixth day!" Hugs and have a great weekend ladies.
Love
Jeannie the damned!
PS. Girls. I must admit. It's great fun living in La La land! I have to run. My Lithium and Thorazine are running low. That Paxil is like a Shirley Temple. What's up with that?
Love your posts Hon. You always write beautifully, make perfect sense and are so logical. I think we are twins separated at birth.
Lets just say there is a Creator. I think that human beings have been created over and over again for trillions of years.
The Creator made us,gave us a beautiful planet that had everything we could ever imagine to survive forever. We were given brains that could think and reason and know right from wrong. The Big Guy/Girl is a hands off manager. We are given all the tools we need and we are allowed to run with it.
The Creator lets us make our own way and never interfears but is always a good listener. We take all the gifts we were given and completely screw everything up and end up being the cause of our own extinction.
Every few million years the Creator says" I think I'll give them another shot. Maybe they learned from their mistakes." Fat chance Danielle.
The late great Bill Hicks did a routine about the Creation. He said" On the seventh day our Creator sat back and relaxed looking down on all the wonderful things created then suddenly realized there was glaring mistake and said ...... "Oh my Me! .....I left pot plants everywhere! Now I have to create Conservative Republicans! I knew I shouldn't of smoked that second bone on the sixth day!" Hugs and have a great weekend ladies.
Love
Jeannie the damned!
PS. Girls. I must admit. It's great fun living in La La land! I have to run. My Lithium and Thorazine are running low. That Paxil is like a Shirley Temple. What's up with that?
-
Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
Here I go again! Everyone has to believe in something! I believe I'll have a beer! Ah! that's better!
First, as was noted in the film that I seem to reference, evidently much too often, "What The (Bleep) Do We Know," the statement is made that we (humans) must have a virtually unfathomable ego to even consider the thought that if, IF this perfect, all powerful, Creator, cares even the slightest about some small piece of rock, three rocks from a minor star (our sun) in some backwater galaxy among the millions of other stars and galaxies as to whether some innate carbon unit wears a dress or a pair of pants to work is the absolute height of arrogance! AND as I am fond of saying that if that is the case and SHE does care, and if these bible-thumping morons are correct and SHE is all perfect and does not make mistakes, "WELL, HERE STANDS VIRGINIA AND SUSAN STANTON AND JEANNIE AND DANIELLE AND ALL THE REST OF MY SISTERS - WHAT DO YOU THINK!? Now get the hell out of my face!"
Virginia
First, as was noted in the film that I seem to reference, evidently much too often, "What The (Bleep) Do We Know," the statement is made that we (humans) must have a virtually unfathomable ego to even consider the thought that if, IF this perfect, all powerful, Creator, cares even the slightest about some small piece of rock, three rocks from a minor star (our sun) in some backwater galaxy among the millions of other stars and galaxies as to whether some innate carbon unit wears a dress or a pair of pants to work is the absolute height of arrogance! AND as I am fond of saying that if that is the case and SHE does care, and if these bible-thumping morons are correct and SHE is all perfect and does not make mistakes, "WELL, HERE STANDS VIRGINIA AND SUSAN STANTON AND JEANNIE AND DANIELLE AND ALL THE REST OF MY SISTERS - WHAT DO YOU THINK!? Now get the hell out of my face!"
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
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Jeannie
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: Connecticut
Aren't we spunky tonight!
Hi Ladies
Someone has their friend. UMS. Ugly mood swings. I also felt the curse coming on. I bit Marley's front paw off this morning. Hey. Stuff happens! That's life. Hugs
Love
Jeannie
PS I hope that Super Glue holds.
Someone has their friend. UMS. Ugly mood swings. I also felt the curse coming on. I bit Marley's front paw off this morning. Hey. Stuff happens! That's life. Hugs
Love
Jeannie
PS I hope that Super Glue holds.
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DeeDee
- Miss Golden Goddess
- Posts: 591
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 4:45 pm
- Location: South Florida
- Contact:
I agree with Danielle about religion and I should have been more specific...I wasn't trashing religion in general...just the wackos. Most of us have some sort of beliefs and thats a good thing. I meant the few, vocal, slap you on the head types that have no tolerence for anyone who disagrees with them. But basically Virginia put it in a nutshell and said what I was trying to say
DeeDee
DeeDee
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Carol Ann
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3296
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 7:23 am
- Location: Southeast Missouri
Well I have to weigh in on this topic as we all have our views.
I was raised in the church and still am a regular going member. I was taught that in all things you have a choice going back to Adam and Eve, do or don't eat from the tree your choice.
The path in life is not very straight and it has many forks in the road and you have the choice of which road you want to go down.
Me personally if I want to wear a dress and I am not breaking any laws that's my choice. If I am wrong and pray for forgiveness I KNOW I will be forgiven.
You know it's not what people think it's what the Creator thinks that counts.
Each of us in their hearts has the choice, is it right or wrong. I don't see any wrong in cross-dressing. Just my simple beliefs.
I was raised in the church and still am a regular going member. I was taught that in all things you have a choice going back to Adam and Eve, do or don't eat from the tree your choice.
The path in life is not very straight and it has many forks in the road and you have the choice of which road you want to go down.
Me personally if I want to wear a dress and I am not breaking any laws that's my choice. If I am wrong and pray for forgiveness I KNOW I will be forgiven.
You know it's not what people think it's what the Creator thinks that counts.
Each of us in their hearts has the choice, is it right or wrong. I don't see any wrong in cross-dressing. Just my simple beliefs.
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Hi Girls:
Since we all live in the "now," it may be a little difficult to see the near future from here. Susan Stanton is about to make major history for all of us on a National level. In my honest opinion, she will retain her job as City Manager - Largo, Fl.
There will be some definite ups and downs. The egg thrower, the conservative 35 year old construction worker, the anti-everything person, the centrist that wants to be supportive but is too busy, and of course, those that think God is going to find a just punishment for anyone that does not conform to their slanted point of view.
Watch closely girls, history is in the making! You will want to be able to say one day, "I was there, I remember it like it was yestereday," while rockin' on the front porch!"
P.S. Do you think that there were his and hers "caveperson" skins to wear?
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Since we all live in the "now," it may be a little difficult to see the near future from here. Susan Stanton is about to make major history for all of us on a National level. In my honest opinion, she will retain her job as City Manager - Largo, Fl.
There will be some definite ups and downs. The egg thrower, the conservative 35 year old construction worker, the anti-everything person, the centrist that wants to be supportive but is too busy, and of course, those that think God is going to find a just punishment for anyone that does not conform to their slanted point of view.
Watch closely girls, history is in the making! You will want to be able to say one day, "I was there, I remember it like it was yestereday," while rockin' on the front porch!"
P.S. Do you think that there were his and hers "caveperson" skins to wear?
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!
-
Carol Ann
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3296
- Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2003 7:23 am
- Location: Southeast Missouri
Danielle,
Do you really think it will make any difference to the public?.
I lived in New Orleans when a truck driver got fired because she dressed on her off time and in her own home. Hay it made national news and the grocery store chain didn't lose a thing and would not back down from their decision even tho there is a law again it and for what it is worth New Orleans has the biggest Tg/Tv population in the states.
Do you really think it will make any difference to the public?.
I lived in New Orleans when a truck driver got fired because she dressed on her off time and in her own home. Hay it made national news and the grocery store chain didn't lose a thing and would not back down from their decision even tho there is a law again it and for what it is worth New Orleans has the biggest Tg/Tv population in the states.
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Florida is the 3rd most populated state in the USA. We have more (over 50) people here than anywhere else in the States. As people age, for the most part, they mellow. They become more "live and let live" oriented. Every year that passes, society moves forward just a little more. There was a time when you would be arrested if out on a public street.
Then, time passes and police departments are providing better training to those that wear the uniform. Remember, only the extreme points of view make the headlines. Only those instances that provide newspaper sales and television watching get noticed by that media.
2007, the year that people can relate to being mis-treated by their employer. It is going to make a difference I think this time. An educated, white collar, well liked individual in local goverment is being unfairly treated. Time for Congressman Barney Frank to jump on the bandwagon and support Stanton.
If we let this pass. Yes, there will be another time, but, I think, that all in the know think, this is the time and place to take a major stand once again as in "Stonewall."
The person was fired for no other reason than gender presentation. And that has not happened yet. What if S. Stanton recants his intentions? He is still he! I am sure that has been discussed as a strategy by the "legal beagles."
We simply cannot allow this to become a "bible" message. Church and State must be kept separate and for now that is not the case. People are refering to their Bibles for guidance on this matter and not "the law."
Keep in mind that if there were no Biblical reference to what we wear, then this would not be a problem (cavemen and cavewoman did not have tailored animal skin suits for each gender). The problem does not stem from civil law, rather, it stems from the Christian Right. For that matter, from anyone that directly supports word for word translation of the Bible.
People pick and choose what they want to hear and believe. What they read into the stories of the Bible. And that according to many a philosopher is what they are; stories designed to entertain and provide a common guide to living.
Before the Guttenberg Press, only Monks and the Religious establishment had any real access to the Bible. People were told what to think. With the Bible going into mass print, people decided that they could read and interpret the "good book" on their own. To this day, no individual can be 100% sure about what is written between those pages.
Thou shalt not kill (except when sanctioned by the ruling government)! We have in our Military, "Chaplains" of religious distinction. We cannot continue to simply do as we please and have such exceptions.
Our civil and ciminal laws are tied closely to our Christian society, which is fast becoming a true melting pot of the 7 major religions. Religion and State must be separate and distinct if we are to treat everyone and that's everyone, with fairness and equality.
Stanton's case must draw a distinct line in the sand. One that says, we are equal citizens, not 2nd class or no class at all. Predjudice is in the eye of the beholder (believer).
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Then, time passes and police departments are providing better training to those that wear the uniform. Remember, only the extreme points of view make the headlines. Only those instances that provide newspaper sales and television watching get noticed by that media.
2007, the year that people can relate to being mis-treated by their employer. It is going to make a difference I think this time. An educated, white collar, well liked individual in local goverment is being unfairly treated. Time for Congressman Barney Frank to jump on the bandwagon and support Stanton.
If we let this pass. Yes, there will be another time, but, I think, that all in the know think, this is the time and place to take a major stand once again as in "Stonewall."
The person was fired for no other reason than gender presentation. And that has not happened yet. What if S. Stanton recants his intentions? He is still he! I am sure that has been discussed as a strategy by the "legal beagles."
We simply cannot allow this to become a "bible" message. Church and State must be kept separate and for now that is not the case. People are refering to their Bibles for guidance on this matter and not "the law."
Keep in mind that if there were no Biblical reference to what we wear, then this would not be a problem (cavemen and cavewoman did not have tailored animal skin suits for each gender). The problem does not stem from civil law, rather, it stems from the Christian Right. For that matter, from anyone that directly supports word for word translation of the Bible.
People pick and choose what they want to hear and believe. What they read into the stories of the Bible. And that according to many a philosopher is what they are; stories designed to entertain and provide a common guide to living.
Before the Guttenberg Press, only Monks and the Religious establishment had any real access to the Bible. People were told what to think. With the Bible going into mass print, people decided that they could read and interpret the "good book" on their own. To this day, no individual can be 100% sure about what is written between those pages.
Thou shalt not kill (except when sanctioned by the ruling government)! We have in our Military, "Chaplains" of religious distinction. We cannot continue to simply do as we please and have such exceptions.
Our civil and ciminal laws are tied closely to our Christian society, which is fast becoming a true melting pot of the 7 major religions. Religion and State must be separate and distinct if we are to treat everyone and that's everyone, with fairness and equality.
Stanton's case must draw a distinct line in the sand. One that says, we are equal citizens, not 2nd class or no class at all. Predjudice is in the eye of the beholder (believer).
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!
-
Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
There is one other point to be made in that the original Dead Sea Scrolls contained many more "books" than made up the Bible. Someone, somewhere, decided which books would make up the Bible and which would be excluded. "Well," according to some theologians, "it was God who influenced them to select those particular books." I say, fine, why did God allow those others to even be composed and hidden with the original Dead Sea Scrolls, and if they are so unimportant why were they kept and not destroyed, and did God actually determine that only certain of the scrolls were His/Her Word and the others not worthy?
I just get my panties in a wad when confronted by some of this idiocy!
Sorry,
Virginia
I just get my panties in a wad when confronted by some of this idiocy!
Sorry,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!