Can I throw in an SO's opinion?
I have not seen the term bi-gendered in print before, but I thought it up for myself a couple of years ago to describe my sweetie, who is both male and female. It fit, and made more sense to me, than transgendered to describe him. It was hard to wrap my brain around the concept that "sometimes he's a guy, and sometimes she's a girl". My single-gender brain could not quite compute it - I couldn't understand how he could be one and then the other.
But bi-gendered - that both genders exist simultaneously with one or the other taking the forefront at any given time - that was computable. For me, it even provided a language for the continuum that he exists on - sometimes male, sometimes female, often somewhere in between. It also alleviated some unspoken fears that he didn't really like his male self - something that is exceedingly difficult - and disconcerting - for a single-gender person to comprehend.
So perhaps while it is not a perfect term for public use, what with all of the discussion that GBLT community does not need a bunch of other labels, it may work well for some of ya'll who wish to explain this to your SOs and your close single-gender friends.
I realize it is not incumbent upon you to make yourself understood. But for those of you who do enjoy both your male life and your female life, and who wish for other close friends and loved ones to be able to understand this better, I think it is an easier term for single-gender people to grasp than TG.
Just my two cents worth...
-georgia(so)
Bigendered
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
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Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
Hi Tekla,
First, I certainly enjoy reading your insightful posts! I love it when I am forced to think, guess it's a blond thing! (sorry, I remember - no emoticons!)
Anyway, I do want to take exception with a couple of your points. One is that as you say, words do have meaning, and THEY DO HAVE MEANING to those expressing them. They may not do it as articulately (is that a word?), anyway, as articulate as others, but they have meaning to the person expressing themselves and in a lot of cases it behoves us to listen. We may mis-understand or mis-interpret what they were "attempting to say," and that in itself can lead to problems, but the fact remains that it was their words and they were communicating or attempting to communicate with another human being.
Second, the term "bi" means "two" does it not? When you insert the word "or" as in "black OR white" "male OR female" etc, to me it kinda negates the term "bi."
Not wishing to take too much of what you have expressed out of context, but yes we - WE= TG, TV, TS, VG, GV, Pre, Post, Non are a complex lot and I think we all agree on that! As I have expressed before, we exist and no one, NO ONE can deny that. We are, in my humble opinion, even given the complexity of the human organism, we further add to the complexity. People = society may not like or even understand gays and lesbians, but they are (no offense to gays and lesbians) but they are not nearly as complex as I think we (see above examples of descriptive terms for us) are. A lot of our sisters here are genuine crossdressers and that is the extent of their involvement. They just enjoy wearing (what society deems) clothing of the opposite sex, for their own reasons. Two come to mind (and I know there are more, I guess). It is sexual or it just feels good! We all know the time worn, the amount, the type, will all vary from individual to individual across the continuum. I will jump to the "other end" of the continuum where the person is resigned to leaving the (only one of many descriptions) "crossdresser's continuum" and taking the ultimate step in becoming physically and (for many) mentally what they were denied at birth.
Now we stroll back on the continuum to where I am and where numerous of my sisters, including you Tekla, appear to be, what I call a NOTS = non-operative transsexual. In my honest and humble opinion, and given Georgia's post as well as some knowledge of the complexity of humans and science's inability (YET) to categorize most of the many and varied characteristics of humans. Here we are!!!!!!!! Male and female existing in the same body! Seeking and some actually finding a balance between the two entities and existing day to day and interacting with "the great unwashed" on a daily basis and actually surviving. Some hiding, others sharing this GIFT! No one will ever convince me that it is not a GIFT. Again, yes words do mean things and they mean things to this girl.
I cannot speak for others in this realm, because I don't know how they actually feel, they can tell me but I will never experience HOW THEY FEEL. I do know how I feel and as I have said and will continue to say, "I am Virginia and Virginia is me, I love her and she loves me!" We love our "Magical Mystery Tour" and will continue our journey.
You know the old adage: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me!"
Love ya and I look forward to your insight and interpretation of "us!"
Virginia
First, I certainly enjoy reading your insightful posts! I love it when I am forced to think, guess it's a blond thing! (sorry, I remember - no emoticons!)
Anyway, I do want to take exception with a couple of your points. One is that as you say, words do have meaning, and THEY DO HAVE MEANING to those expressing them. They may not do it as articulately (is that a word?), anyway, as articulate as others, but they have meaning to the person expressing themselves and in a lot of cases it behoves us to listen. We may mis-understand or mis-interpret what they were "attempting to say," and that in itself can lead to problems, but the fact remains that it was their words and they were communicating or attempting to communicate with another human being.
Second, the term "bi" means "two" does it not? When you insert the word "or" as in "black OR white" "male OR female" etc, to me it kinda negates the term "bi."
Not wishing to take too much of what you have expressed out of context, but yes we - WE= TG, TV, TS, VG, GV, Pre, Post, Non are a complex lot and I think we all agree on that! As I have expressed before, we exist and no one, NO ONE can deny that. We are, in my humble opinion, even given the complexity of the human organism, we further add to the complexity. People = society may not like or even understand gays and lesbians, but they are (no offense to gays and lesbians) but they are not nearly as complex as I think we (see above examples of descriptive terms for us) are. A lot of our sisters here are genuine crossdressers and that is the extent of their involvement. They just enjoy wearing (what society deems) clothing of the opposite sex, for their own reasons. Two come to mind (and I know there are more, I guess). It is sexual or it just feels good! We all know the time worn, the amount, the type, will all vary from individual to individual across the continuum. I will jump to the "other end" of the continuum where the person is resigned to leaving the (only one of many descriptions) "crossdresser's continuum" and taking the ultimate step in becoming physically and (for many) mentally what they were denied at birth.
Now we stroll back on the continuum to where I am and where numerous of my sisters, including you Tekla, appear to be, what I call a NOTS = non-operative transsexual. In my honest and humble opinion, and given Georgia's post as well as some knowledge of the complexity of humans and science's inability (YET) to categorize most of the many and varied characteristics of humans. Here we are!!!!!!!! Male and female existing in the same body! Seeking and some actually finding a balance between the two entities and existing day to day and interacting with "the great unwashed" on a daily basis and actually surviving. Some hiding, others sharing this GIFT! No one will ever convince me that it is not a GIFT. Again, yes words do mean things and they mean things to this girl.
I cannot speak for others in this realm, because I don't know how they actually feel, they can tell me but I will never experience HOW THEY FEEL. I do know how I feel and as I have said and will continue to say, "I am Virginia and Virginia is me, I love her and she loves me!" We love our "Magical Mystery Tour" and will continue our journey.
You know the old adage: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me!"
Love ya and I look forward to your insight and interpretation of "us!"
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
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Jennifer M
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:04 pm
- Location: Upstate New York
I was so glad to find this old post.For the longest time I knew of crossdressers and transexuals but felt I didint fully fit into either group.I felt like the only one who felt like this until I first heard the term Bi-gender.I really dont like labels but I feel that they are in someway neccesary.I felt better when I heard it and realized that others felt both genders as I do.It is important to remember that this is only one stop on the long line of gender issues.It just happens to be my spot and the term does help in the search for a good balance between the two 
Understand the voice within
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Tekla
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 243
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:21 pm
- Location: San Fran Bay Area
I don't know about being a "NOTS" most would, I presume, would want to substitute a 'U' for the 'O' and let it go at that. At least you would not get much opposition to that.
My point was, that we don't get to choose the words, we do not get to pick the categories, especially not now. Like arriving a half-hour late to a wedding, its a bit far past the time to be on the decorating committee.
Where these words have - and need to have - very specific definitions, in law and legal matters, and in clinical psychology to name two, they have been cemented into their meanings now for at least 15 years, and in some cases 20. That train left the station a long time ago now.
Where some decry being lumped into some category - more often than not an effort not to be grouped with "those people" (because you know, I'm not like them, no way!) - there is a need to define, to categorize, to group and to name. Was that not god's second gift to Adam, the right to name the animals?
That need is real, as I said above, in both the legalistic and therapeutic senses.
And, I use the "OR" because in a binary world, it tends to be one or the other. Only when you have a matrix, a larger taxonomy if you will, can you get past that and into more subtle and delicate shadings of meaning. And people, being what they are, want to know that its "this" and not "that." It hard for a lot of folks to see that in fact its not just both, its a lot more too.
In my experience, the beauty for a lot of people in a binary system is not the "AND", its the "OR". It's not about inclusion. It's about exclusion.
When I taught history in the uni, I would try to give the students a perspective about the differing schools of historical research and writing. So that in any major event - say The American Revolution - there are ways of looking at it in an economic sense, a political sense, a feminist perspective, a social, a cultural, an 'arts and letters' perspective too. Being little humans, they always wanted to know which one was "right" - what the correct perspective was. The hardest thing for them to get their minds around was the notion that they ALL might be right, more or less. Or at least it was true sometimes, you can see it that way.
Such things are - like the Gender Variance Community, as you noted - extremely complex. And simple notions: The American Revolution was about taxes, or The Civil War was about slavery, tend to be inaccurate, and often wrong for their simplicity misses the real reason.
Besides, where you are in all of that is not static. Isn't the old tranny joke "What's the difference between a public CD and TS?" "Ten years." What I was 10 years ago is not what I'm about now, and I doubt if I will be the same 10 years from now. Sure hope not.
Like the "Gift" word. I sure never use it. I see it more like the old Star Trek theory of IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination. You were dealt one set of cards (one groups of traits) others got others, some similar to you, others very different. How you deal with them might well be a gift - but the numbers of suicides and slow suicides by drugs and alcohol and reckless sex by so many of our sisters would indicate to me that some find it a curse, a weight, a burden. So that its being a "gift" is an attribute that not all so gifted would want to label it.
It can be a gift, depends on how you use it. As Ani DeFranco once said: "Every tool is a weapon if you hold it right."
My point was, that we don't get to choose the words, we do not get to pick the categories, especially not now. Like arriving a half-hour late to a wedding, its a bit far past the time to be on the decorating committee.
Where these words have - and need to have - very specific definitions, in law and legal matters, and in clinical psychology to name two, they have been cemented into their meanings now for at least 15 years, and in some cases 20. That train left the station a long time ago now.
Where some decry being lumped into some category - more often than not an effort not to be grouped with "those people" (because you know, I'm not like them, no way!) - there is a need to define, to categorize, to group and to name. Was that not god's second gift to Adam, the right to name the animals?
That need is real, as I said above, in both the legalistic and therapeutic senses.
And, I use the "OR" because in a binary world, it tends to be one or the other. Only when you have a matrix, a larger taxonomy if you will, can you get past that and into more subtle and delicate shadings of meaning. And people, being what they are, want to know that its "this" and not "that." It hard for a lot of folks to see that in fact its not just both, its a lot more too.
In my experience, the beauty for a lot of people in a binary system is not the "AND", its the "OR". It's not about inclusion. It's about exclusion.
When I taught history in the uni, I would try to give the students a perspective about the differing schools of historical research and writing. So that in any major event - say The American Revolution - there are ways of looking at it in an economic sense, a political sense, a feminist perspective, a social, a cultural, an 'arts and letters' perspective too. Being little humans, they always wanted to know which one was "right" - what the correct perspective was. The hardest thing for them to get their minds around was the notion that they ALL might be right, more or less. Or at least it was true sometimes, you can see it that way.
Such things are - like the Gender Variance Community, as you noted - extremely complex. And simple notions: The American Revolution was about taxes, or The Civil War was about slavery, tend to be inaccurate, and often wrong for their simplicity misses the real reason.
Besides, where you are in all of that is not static. Isn't the old tranny joke "What's the difference between a public CD and TS?" "Ten years." What I was 10 years ago is not what I'm about now, and I doubt if I will be the same 10 years from now. Sure hope not.
Like the "Gift" word. I sure never use it. I see it more like the old Star Trek theory of IDIC - Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination. You were dealt one set of cards (one groups of traits) others got others, some similar to you, others very different. How you deal with them might well be a gift - but the numbers of suicides and slow suicides by drugs and alcohol and reckless sex by so many of our sisters would indicate to me that some find it a curse, a weight, a burden. So that its being a "gift" is an attribute that not all so gifted would want to label it.
It can be a gift, depends on how you use it. As Ani DeFranco once said: "Every tool is a weapon if you hold it right."
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Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
HI Hon,
Yes this has been discussed and cussed on this forum several times. The using of names/words to describe "things." I can't truthfully say I have seen it all, but evidently I have not missed too much. I had the opportunity to go through the entire SRS with a friend of mine from the year before through the actual process of sitting in the waiting room and having the first thing out of her mouth when she awoke, asking for me! That was a real honor.
I was at the SCC in Atlanta a few years ago and at one of the lunches, in comes two 'er, two, well, here it is several years later and I still don't want to say what I think they were, but it was two unshaven, face and legs and I would assume other body parts, wigs, sloppy make-up, bras, panties and garter belts, hose and 4" heels, all in black. Sorry, but they looked ridiculous, but I have to give them credit, they showed up at a luncheon of about 200 people and walked around totally, seemingly oblivious to the stares, giggles and snide remarks. Went to a table, sat down and had lunch.
As for the "gift" aspect, yes it is not a gift to some and you are right, too many of our "sister" have been unable to handle the adornment to their personality, but then again a lot of them did not have access to the internet like we do. I know this forum has been the shelter in a storm for a lot of us. I know it has been my saving grace and from the comments of a number of our sisters, it has meant an awful lot to them as well. I can not even begin to imagine what "our sisters" who were really struggling with this "personna flaw" did before they had access to the information we have at our fingertips now! I read a lot of statements like, "I thought I was the only one" or " I just felt so all alone."
Between you and me I don't think we will be accepted by society for quite some time. Oh, they may accept a guy in girl's clothes, but to understand the innate need/desire we have, that will take scientific study and perhaps some major changes in the DSM-IV, i.e., the next edition that would have to say "we" like our lesbian and gay brothers and sisters are not "crazy."
You have got to believe that there are some very, very high powered people who are crossdressers and would not come out of the closet even if dragged by wild horses!!!!!
But it is my humble opinion and I think you have seen my say this before. I firmly believe that "we" are the next phase in human evolution. It may take 20,000+ years but --- here we come. Lydia or even Tekla may know, but isn't science predicting that the "X" in the "xy" chromosome is going to be extinct in the next 20,000 or so years. I can not remember the exact figures but it use to have like 25,000 genes and now it is down to 12 - 14,000 and is constantly decreasing.
Anyway that puts me a bit over my head, so again, thanks for being here and as I said I certainly enjoy reading your view points on things!
Stay fluffy,
Love,
Virginia
Yes this has been discussed and cussed on this forum several times. The using of names/words to describe "things." I can't truthfully say I have seen it all, but evidently I have not missed too much. I had the opportunity to go through the entire SRS with a friend of mine from the year before through the actual process of sitting in the waiting room and having the first thing out of her mouth when she awoke, asking for me! That was a real honor.
I was at the SCC in Atlanta a few years ago and at one of the lunches, in comes two 'er, two, well, here it is several years later and I still don't want to say what I think they were, but it was two unshaven, face and legs and I would assume other body parts, wigs, sloppy make-up, bras, panties and garter belts, hose and 4" heels, all in black. Sorry, but they looked ridiculous, but I have to give them credit, they showed up at a luncheon of about 200 people and walked around totally, seemingly oblivious to the stares, giggles and snide remarks. Went to a table, sat down and had lunch.
As for the "gift" aspect, yes it is not a gift to some and you are right, too many of our "sister" have been unable to handle the adornment to their personality, but then again a lot of them did not have access to the internet like we do. I know this forum has been the shelter in a storm for a lot of us. I know it has been my saving grace and from the comments of a number of our sisters, it has meant an awful lot to them as well. I can not even begin to imagine what "our sisters" who were really struggling with this "personna flaw" did before they had access to the information we have at our fingertips now! I read a lot of statements like, "I thought I was the only one" or " I just felt so all alone."
Between you and me I don't think we will be accepted by society for quite some time. Oh, they may accept a guy in girl's clothes, but to understand the innate need/desire we have, that will take scientific study and perhaps some major changes in the DSM-IV, i.e., the next edition that would have to say "we" like our lesbian and gay brothers and sisters are not "crazy."
You have got to believe that there are some very, very high powered people who are crossdressers and would not come out of the closet even if dragged by wild horses!!!!!
But it is my humble opinion and I think you have seen my say this before. I firmly believe that "we" are the next phase in human evolution. It may take 20,000+ years but --- here we come. Lydia or even Tekla may know, but isn't science predicting that the "X" in the "xy" chromosome is going to be extinct in the next 20,000 or so years. I can not remember the exact figures but it use to have like 25,000 genes and now it is down to 12 - 14,000 and is constantly decreasing.
Anyway that puts me a bit over my head, so again, thanks for being here and as I said I certainly enjoy reading your view points on things!
Stay fluffy,
Love,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
-
Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
-
Jennifer M
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:04 pm
- Location: Upstate New York
Today I had free day,nothing I had to do and I was planning on being Jennifer all day.When I woke up my male side was predominat.I tried being Jennifer but it wasnt working,it felt wrong.So I had a day as Jeff and it was a good day.I have no control over what gender will be "out".That is why I like the term Bi gender. 
Understand the voice within
-
Georgia(SO)
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:58 am
Jennifer M said,
But I couldn't quite figure out why sometimes he'd start the day as female, and then disappear into the bedroom and come back as male. I was afraid it had something to do with whether he thought I was disapproving and that somehow I was pushing him to be something different, even though I had not said a thing. But your statement about it feeling wrong, and you can't control which gender is "out" makes perfect sense in relation to what I see.
Thanks for the reminder that this stuff really has absolutely nothing to do with me whatsoever!!
-georgia(so)
That's interesting, because that is what I see sometimes in my sweetie. I understood, or thought I did, why he would sometimes start the day out as a male, and change to female, later in the day. I figured he was just ready for the change. And I have always understood why he would go out in public as male, and change as soon as he got home.Today I had free day,nothing I had to do and I was planning on being Jennifer all day.When I woke up my male side was predominat.I tried being Jennifer but it wasnt working,it felt wrong.So I had a day as Jeff and it was a good day.I have no control over what gender will be "out".That is why I like the term Bi gender.
But I couldn't quite figure out why sometimes he'd start the day as female, and then disappear into the bedroom and come back as male. I was afraid it had something to do with whether he thought I was disapproving and that somehow I was pushing him to be something different, even though I had not said a thing. But your statement about it feeling wrong, and you can't control which gender is "out" makes perfect sense in relation to what I see.
Thanks for the reminder that this stuff really has absolutely nothing to do with me whatsoever!!
-georgia(so)
-
Jennifer M
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 361
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:04 pm
- Location: Upstate New York