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DonnaT
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Post by DonnaT »

Virginia wrote:Surely you can't be saying that anyone who in reality does not meet "societal expectations for presentation amongst and interaction with society" is probably mentally unbalanced?
No, not at all what I meant. Which is why I used the word 'some'. Thing is, we don't really know why people are the way they are. The mind is indeed a marvelous organ, and quite mysterious still.

Are these things acceptable (note I said 'understanding' ;) )? If they aren't harming anyone, including themselves.

Some who are harming themselves can be helped, usually with lots of therapy, some can't. Those who can, usually have to want help.
DonnaT
Danielle La Belle
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Post by Danielle La Belle »

Hi Girls:

There are 3 types of “belief system.”

Type One: mostly dogma, indoctrination, and controlling beliefs.

Type Two: common sense beliefs.

Type Three: scientific, fact-supported beliefs.



First, what does it mean to believe? If you trace the word back to its roots you’ll find that it means “to be comfortable with or satisfied with.” The belief that a person in a Type One belief system is comfortable with and satisfied with is not always the same thing that a person in a Type Three belief system is comfortable with and satisfied with. We have an idiom in English for that: “different strokes for different folks.”

When I say, “I believe you,” what am I saying? I’m saying that I’m comfortable with what you told me, or that I’m satisfied with what you told me. Truth and efficacy are not necessarily factors of why I believe something. Some truths are very uncomfortable, and hard for me to believe. Some lies are easy for me to believe because they make me feel comfortable. If you tell me that my mistakes are not my fault, it’s easy for me to believe. If you tell me that my mistakes are my responsibility, that is uncomfortable and I would rather not believe you. I find it a little bit of a revelation that belief has more to do with comfort than it has to do with truth. Any effort to find the truth will likely take you out of your belief comfort zone.

If you said to me, “hey, there are three elephants in the parking lot,” and it is a totally made up story, how am I going to process it? Part of my mind goes, “wow, that’s unusual---three elephants in the parking lot!” The another part of my mind says, “well, it could happen.” In the Ocean Center, Daytona Beach Florida, there is a large door called the “elephant door.” The Ringling Brothers Circus, uses the door to bring in their “elephants” when they are in town for a show. So, yes, I now know that it is possible as a point of future reference.

In a Type One belief system, “yea. It could be true,” amounts to verification. So I believe your story, because it could be true. And, I even pass the information on to someone else, “hey Mary, did you know there are forty elephants in the parking lot?” Now, I have been known to tease Mary occasionally, April Fools’ jokes and that sort of thing. She’s going to receive my story about the forty elephants in the parking lot with some skepticism. She doesn’t feel comfortable to be fooled. “Sure, Danielle,” she says. “Would you believe three elephants?” “Maybe.” She is checking her experiences to see if it could be true.

And as long as she’s checking to see if it could be true, I tease her: “and one of the elephants stepped on your car?” “The intention behind a Type One belief is to be right.” A person in a Type One belief system, will find this belief very comfortable: “I am right and they are wrong.” This is the intention that leads to war and strife. It sets family against family, neighbor against neighbor. “I am right and they are wrong.”

Type One believing is more or less taking an inventory of your memory and determining the plausibility of some statement. As long as you come up with, “Yea, it could be.” And the source of the information is making you right, you will be persuaded. Persuasion in a Type One belief system is based on emotions connected with being right or wrong. That is the Type One process of believing: someone says something; it sounds plausible; and you get this little emotional surge because what you suspected was right is really right or what you suspected was wrong is really wrong. This is a well known formula for getting elected by a large group: say something, make it sound plausible, and stimulate some righteous emotion. Most political platforms consist of Type One beliefs.

With Type One believing , you checked the record to see if a statement was plausible, but with “Type Two” believing you don’t have to check for memories because you already know. You know without looking. Knowing has more certainty in it than remembering.

How many times do you have to experience a cause and effect sequence before you know? How many times do you have to repeat an action, always producing the same result, before you can say that you know without looking for what the result will be of that action? That is a Type Two belief.

Type Two beliefs are common sense and there really is no effort involved in believing them. You just know. If someone tells you they dropped an object and it fell to the floor, your going to go, “Doh! What did you expect?” You don’t have to see if it is plausible, or if the person is making you right, because you know that dropped objects fall to the floor. The belief is transparent. Now, if someone were to say that he dropped an object and it fell up to the ceiling, you’re not going to feel that your rightness is threatened, you will just consider that the guy is some sort of whack-job.

The intention behind Type Two belief systems is to conform and act rationally. And in this case, rationality is based on transparent beliefs that everyone pretty much agrees on. If you want to persuade someone of a Type Two belief, you appeal to their sense of conformity.

OK, lets move up to Type Three believing process. If you want to experience a complicated believing process explore a Type Three belief system. The intention behind a Type Three belief systems is to prove it. You are going to persuade by presenting facts that support your theory, and disputing facts that don’t support your theory. There is still a shadow of the urge to be right from Type One.

Type Three is the realm of physical sciences, …and facts, …and hypothesis, …and propositions, …and suppositions, …and theories, …and especially physical measuring devices. Did you know that there are measuring devices to measure how accurately other measuring devices measure (the “Science of Metrology”, (“not Meteorology, that’s Weather science”)). An area of science that I have spent several years in with the Aerospace industry.

The mantra of the Type Three believing process is, “What evidence do you have for believing that?” A large part of the Type Three believing process is debating over the evidence. And the only way of settling a Type Three debate is with the measuring devices. And, even that doesn’t always work.

The Type Three process of believing is a factual investigation of the perception of a reality, which, based upon transparent beliefs, is assumed to be real. For example, two Harvard psychologists discovered that when a 100-volt shock is applied the right side of a rat’s cage, the rat moves immediately to the left side of the cage. From the experiment they were able to conclude that rats are intelligent enough to avoid being shocked. After the experiment, one of the psychologists accidentally stumbled and touched the live electrodes. Responding to his screams, the other psychologist, instead of moving away, grabbed the first psychologist and both of them were so severely shocked that they required medical attention. Proving that a rat is smarter than two Harvard psychologists.

Type Three beliefs are based on scientific evidence, which is based on measuring devices, which measure something that is assumed to be real. Science doesn’t so much extend the frontier of human experience, as it extends backward from the frontier of human experience. The Type Three believing system is a maturation with the Type One believing process and the Type Two believing process falls somewhere in between.

So here you have the evolution of the believing process. You have a linear evolvement of child, adolescent, adult.

The material here in vast majority is from a speech given in June 2007, by Harry Palmer, to the International Avatar Course attendees. Star’s Edge International, Altamonte Springs, Florida.

Avatar is about a different “belief system. The Type Four system not to be discussed at this time is the core concepts of the Avatar program that is taught World-Wide by certified Avatar masters.

Hugs

Danielle Marie
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Make the most of every day!
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Virginia
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Post by Virginia »

First, Sylvia we may choose to agree or disagree as can be seen on numerous threads on this forum, but one thing stands above all else ----- we are here to help each other, so please don't wait too long to share with us. We love to hear from our sisters - "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly!"

That is the one common thread throughout this "Island in the Stream!" Some of us stumble through a thread, not quite sure if we made ourselves clear, but most of us can read between the lines and determine what our sister may or may not be trying to say and if we get it wrong, then we have the right to come back and redefine or reexplain ourselves without fear of ostracization (Danielle is that a word?) Anyway, share with us, let it out, what is the worse that can happen, what we cut your pay?

It is not likely that you will find a more open, sharing group of people anywhere, we are the "been there done that" gang and we listen.

Love ya,

Virginia

#2.
Agnostics, atheist, non-believers, infidels, "In the beginning GOD....."

Well, the "Big Bang!" theory of the universe, there are those that feel that that is how it all started, but how did the Bang come about??? Well, seems that GOD was at "that time of month" PMS and all and SHE was having a really bad day and BAM! and it all started because SHE was pissed and not her usual, jovial self, but in seeing what SHE had created, SHE decided to just sit back and watch it all unfold, laughing HER backside off as it evolved! .............................. Well its a belief theory, isn't it??

Common sense, who's to say?? Scientific theory - proof? Well, disprove it!!!! In the movie, "Dogma" there is a part where "The 'Voice of God" says something to the effect that one of the funniest things that Heaven sees is the way we copulate, the grunting and moaning it is evidently good for a hearty laugh in "the other realm."

I have reached the point in my life (which has been alluded to in an earlier reply) that I really don't give a damn what someone wears, thinks, says, and with what I am subjected to on TV, hell I am not even shocked anymore by what we/humans do or for that matter don't do to each other.

As I have said many times before and continue to say, "I am Virginia, Virginia is me and I will take the hand of my lovely SO and we will skip on down the path of our MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR!"

Go forth Woman and BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
Danielle La Belle
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Post by Danielle La Belle »

Hi Girls:

Virginia, you really need to start watching "Animal Planet." God said, "I have given you everything that you need to go forth and multiply. With just reason, I will not interfere with the drama that unfolds before me. My flock is free to be.....not far from me."

Dead Sea Scrolls....English translation...

:) :) :) :)

"Hugs"

Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!
Sylvia H
Miss Emerald Goddess
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Post by Sylvia H »

Virginia,
Thanks for the comment. I probably need some therapy. Im just used to muddleing through problems mostly alone. Its tedious but I do ok.

Ithink i need to get out among us more often as well. Might just join TriEss. There is a large support network discovered in the Chicago area. Too bad my assignment ended just as it was being discovered. Now I am out here in Hooterville. Its great for finding alone time, but kinda far from evryone. Oh well.

I had to sleep on it twice but I think I must have interpreted your original comments as somewhat judgemental. Not somethingI expected. I apologize for that and going off topic..

Cutting my pay??? Yikes! Maybe Ill qualify for foodstamps :lol: :lol:

xoxo
Sylvia
Danielle La Belle
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Post by Danielle La Belle »

Hi Girls:

Sylvia, no apology needed or required girl friend! Heck, I go off topic so often, people here think I am trying for some kind of record.. :lol:

No one is right or wrong here. You are just in your "now."

["Michelangelo" di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni], wrote once in a sonnet;

"I am in a bad place, and I am no painter." In his late years, Michelangelo wrote as he would fret over his life's work, asking God if he had done enough to satisfy God and earn a place in heaven. Michelangelo was a deeply religious man and dedicated his life and work to this satisfaction.

If "he," could think at the time of painting the "Sistine Chapel," that he was in a bad place and was no painter, then how can I possibly consider my life's work at this time as adequate?

Well, I think that it is all in the mind. With 3 belief systems defined here, we can now see, in the now, how a man or woman can present themselves in a manner that is not consistent with OUR current belief system.

Perhaps, just perhaps, people that in our opinion look less than presentable, do not have any consideration for others rather than it being a self-esteem issue for themselves. That is, they could really care less about what we think about their appearance at the mall or pizza parlor. Perhaps they are snubbing their nose at society as a personal punishment for their being financially poor etc.

Perhaps the only way to really know is to approach them and ask?

Hugs

Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!
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