A female take on clothing sizes

[Tekla]

Interesting take on this from a female blog

Women's dress sizes (in addition to changing randomly over time) have no real meaning. They are arbitrary numbers, chosen by gay men who dislike women because they view them as competition.

see full article at:

http://www.thisisby.us/index.php/conten ... and_weight

[Gaven McLaren]

interesting article. This is why I am glad I know how to read a size guide and look it up for stores I shop at. The best size guides are the ones that show a comparison to other brands as well so you know how to convert. However this is also why I have gotten comfortable with trying on clothes in the stores.

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

In general, ladies clothing sizes vary significantly from brand to brand and style to style, but knowing what size you are in a rather generic way (like in Sears' clothing or whatever) can give you a good idea of where to start.

I'm a bit offended by the incinuation that gay men view women as competition.... Perhaps it should be on another thread, but I find that patently offensive. Gay men and straight women go for entirely different partners and should not compete with one another. Where are my fellow hags out there when I need them?

-Tiffany

[Tekla]

Well I did find it funny that a woman wrote it, but it did remind me of what my ex used to say (and still does I'm sure, I'm just not listening anymore) "If straight men ran the woman's fashion industry all women would look like a Fredrick's of Hollywood catalog."

And her point, that female sizing is outright weird compared to men's is spot on. A 42 reg suit jacket for men is the same across brands. A '12' is not a '12' in every line - add to that a new development 'vanity sizing,' so women who wear a 16 or 18 and don't like those numbers can now buy that stuff labeled as a 12 or even a 10. One of the designers for Bebe when asked why they don't have anything above a size 10 said "I'm a fashion designer, not a tent maker." Ouch.

As for gay men viewing woman as competition, I think she is wrong, but the real view is in fact much worse in the fashion industry. They view them more as real life barbie dolls. I work fashion shows (runway) because they require as much staging, lights and sound as any rock show. And other than the stagehands its all pretty much gay men. Gay men on makeup and dressing - and you can't pick at that, runway models don't wear underwear (can't ruin the line of the dress and all) unless they are doing a Victoria's Secret show. So you can't blame them for wanting gay men standing in there with them. Straight guys would drool too much. Because, contrary to popular opinion, those girls are very pretty in real life. But they are treated not like people, but like walking dolls to be primed, posed and draped.

[Kerri]

I totally agree with what your saying. Except in Europe its common for male sizes to be wrong too.

I was at the dentist on Tuesday, I saw this article ina Fashion Mag which said that some big name fashion stores for men are under labeling their jeans by as much as six inches.

You cant buy anything these days without trying it on. Thats why being able to get your money back if it dont fit Policy's are so important.

My wife and I argued for months because she said I never wore the jeans she bought me, because I was too fat, and should go on a diet.
It took an age for her to accept that the size 40 waist jeans she had bought were really a 36 around the waist band.

My ex-wife used to work as a machinist in a clothing factory, she said they regularly made garments in two sizes only, then attached several different size labels to them.

Kerri

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

Tekla - I will say that models' jobs are to be living, walking, barbie dolls.... At least while they are doing the show. That's probably why they are treated that way. Think about it..... They get paid to make clothes look good, and their "handlers" (the gay men you spoke of) have a job to do too..... To make sure they look perfect and, more importantly, that the clothes look good ON them. The models know that they are getting paid to be a living doll.... It's what they signed up for. It may SEEM as though they are being objectified, but it's really just professional. I used to do a bit of modeling myself (just catalogs and a couple of regional ads) in my slimmer days.... It's not the most empowering business in the world, but it's good money. And I have TONS and TONS of gay friends in the fashion industry, and they view models as professional clothes racks... which is in fact what they are. Male models are treated the same way. It has nothing to do with competition and everything to do with every individual doing what they were hired to do.

As for clothing sizes.... Yes, they are whacked out. I definitely have an issue with mis-sizing.... But I don't think it has much to do with the gay community. It has more to do with societal influences on women and the vanity of the female psyche. Why buy a dress in a size 12 when a size 8 will fit you?

I say maternity designers have the right idea. They make clothing in small, medium, and large (or first, second, and third trimester) and you just have to try it on and put a little thought into it (as in.... If I buy the medium, will it still fit in my 9th month?). But pregnancy is a time when women expect expanding waistlines and shifting weight, and vanity falls by the wayside while practicality and value prevail. If women could possibly start thinking of their bodies as living things that grow and change ALL the time (not just during pregnancy) the market for these "vanity sizes" would disappear, and women could have clothes sized the way men do. I notice that my maternity clothes are also made better and out of more body concious fabrics..... Another pet peeve I have with the women's fashion industry.

The one problem I WILL acknowledge is that a small majority of DESIGNERS are gay men, and lets face it.... Men do not know how to dress a woman. They choose fabrics, cuts and fit that they think are "pretty" or "feminine" or "sexy", but they often fail to consider what those fabrics or fit do to a woman's natural bumps and bulges. That's why so many models are super skinny and have figures that often look like young boys. And that's why that flowy chiffon shirt that looked so great on a size zero model doesn't quite fly for the average size 10-12 American woman. That doesn't have anything to do with the size label, but it DOES explain why many runways fashions don't work for anyone but Paris Hilton et al.

-Tiffany

[Ann Stef]

Vary from quality and style. Bring a tape measure. Stretch the dress across, mesure across, then multiple by 2. Compare this to your own size. I do this, especially in thrift stores. Tags . there can be missing or worn out.

[Tekla]

Or just hold it up to you like girls do.

here is a strange, but true fashion power for you. Take the waist of the skirt, and put it around your neck, if the fabric touches it should fit you, as your neck is about 1/2 the size of the waist.

[SilverLady(SO)]

here is a strange, but true fashion power for you. Take the waist of the skirt, and put it around your neck, if the fabric touches it should fit you, as your neck is about 1/2 the size of the waist.

Yeah, right . . . not!!

I've never heard of anyone doing that before - must be a guy thing, or something that only a skinny Paris Hilton-wannabe would believe.

I'm not overweight and your theory just does not work! Not only that, but for any male or female who is even moderately over weight - just about every over-weight person I have ever seen carries that weight where?

Right at their waist and hips!

. . . and I'm not even going to address your theory as it relates to anyone who is greatly overweight=gross obesity!


Come down from your rigging and join the real world!!

- SL

[Tekla]

Paris Hilton I'm not, not even by a long shot. I'm even slightly overweight in my mid life belly, still it works for me. I find a need about a 1/8 to 1/4 inch overlap on the neck (which translates to a 1/2 on the waist. But as a rough guide it can't be beat. You can be pretty sure that if you come up an inch short at the neck, it ain't gonna fit the waist.

I was taught this by a female, a fashion designer by the name of Polly Pandemonium of the Moral Minority Inc. She specializes in latex fashions and runs the best parties in the world, look her up. Though in fairness, she did not discover it, some guy named Leonardo da Vinci did and applied in "The Divine Proportion" (1509 C.E. "De Divina Proportione"). Others knew about it before him, where it was called "The Golden Section" or "The Golden Mean".

But like all untruths are all but impossible to disprove, most truths are simple to demonstrate, so take a hank of rope, or a belt, and put it loosely around your neck, double the length and see if it roughly fits you around your waist (not the belly, the waist).

Saves me a lot of time in second-hand stores for sure.

Fashion stuff basically excludes those with gross obesity from the get go, and that is not me, its Paris, New York, and Milan.

******

As an aside, I'm missing the point about the rigging. First, I still have one kid in college so I need the money because I'm committed to getting them college degrees without carrying any debt into their real life (yeah, I know that's awful close to being responsible - I do have my moments), and it pays me more than even being the crew chief (ya gotta love unions where you actually get paid what you are worth, how many other people make more than their boss?), so I take all the rigging calls I can get. At more than twice the scale of the ground people, it would be irresponsible for me not to climb in a fiscal sense. Second, and anyone with a real job will dig this one - its the one place I can be where I can't be told "put that down and go do that instead." Third, I believe that I'm the best at at (or one of the best), and since public safety is at stake I feel better if I'm the one doing it. That way I'm sure its done right the first time, and you don't get a second chance.

Its not like you can backspace and delete like on a computer, or erase a mistake, or send out a new invoice, or take a meeting about it. Even if no one was injured, the moving lights cost $14 to $25K* each, and people get real mad when you break something that costs that much. Trust me on that one, I'm real sure about it. But hey, you can test it out, just walk up to your boss and tell him you have made an unrecoverable $18,000 mistake and find out how they react.

The fact that I get to write off a couple hundred dollars of technical climbing equipment every year is just a bonus. As is the work itself, which helps me stay in shape to do technical rock climbing a couple times a year, even though I'm past 50.

And, what? Was that supposed to imply that somehow up there I'm ditzy? Ask anyone who does technical climbing, or is skiing double black diamond slopes, or riding a motorcycle very fast and they will tell you that you are never so focused, so sharp, so clear as you are at those moments when you have total concentration in a highly dangerous situation. Its downright addicting. Danger junkies.

Besides, along with the bike, the walking, the truck loading, the lifting, the gym and all that I can keep in reasonable shape, and since this is the beauty section, I'm sure I'm not out of line in saying that few things are more attractive than a person who is physically fit, be they men or women. And that is not just me in my more shallow moments thinking that women (or guys) a a lot hotter if they are in good shape and not overweight - its pretty much the entire fashion, entertainment, fitness, and dating industries.

And hey, were else could I work in a 95% male (macho male at that) environment and wear ballet shoes while being called by my drag name, or be called "Tinkerbell" (now shortened to "Tink") as a term of endearment?



* See: Martian MAC 2000, or Vari-Light and see if I'm kidding about the prices. The lamps (bulbs) alone cost a few hundred bucks.

[Kerri]

Hey going by your proportions the skirt would have to go twice round my neck to be sure it fitted my waist.

I'm 17.5" on the neck, I wish I was 35" on the waist. I would be a female amazon if I was, just imagine 42-35-40 what a dream figure.

But it remains a dream. Leonardo wasnt that well fed was he!

tara

kerri

[Tekla]

read it again. the skit (since its round, you are only talking about half the length of the hem) goes around your neck, the whole will fit around your waist. Try it, and get back to me.

[DonnaT]

here is a strange, but true fashion power for you. Take the waist of the skirt, and put it around your neck, if the fabric touches it should fit you, as your neck is about 1/2 the size of the waist.

Welll, the fabric will definitely touch, as the measurement of the waist of the skirt is more than twice the measurement of my neck. Thus it will overlap, and touch.

Now if you mean --just touch-- (edge to edge), forget it. 44/2 = 22 and 22>19

[Tekla]

I said I gave it an extra 1/8 - 1/4 inch, its not exact, but its in the ballpark, thanks for confirming that for me. I never said it was exact, just a relative value, based on all things (including your belly, and willpower, being equal).

Gee whiz, its a fashion power, not a Supreme Court decision for pete's sake. Its about relative values, not about law. Geezzze.

[Kerri]

who is calling who fat?