Zero femming

[CJ]

Hi all,

I miss it. Last time I crossdressed fully was in the fall of 2006. No purges or anything (unless you count the winnowing down of my wardrobe--for fashion crime reasons--with the help of my SO, Roxanne, a member here as well), just, well, you know, zero femming.

I still have the occasional urge or desire to do so, but not the energy nor the opportunity, it seems. Roxanne sort of accepts my CD'ing and is, to some extent, understanding, but I think this--my present state of mind--may be related to my own issues more than to anything else. You know the song, folks. Yes, I can do it in front of (and with) her but there's no way I feel comfortable enough to share the extent to which my femme feelings haunt me. So I just don't dress (except for the odd wearing of this or that article of clothing). Crossdressing, for me, isn't what it used to be. And what was that, exactly? Feeling the joy and bliss that come with the opportunity for me to express my true inner feelings and to show the world my true face, however unlovely to some.

There are some complications, too, which should be taken into account, I think. Roxanne's job puts her both in the halls of power and in the public eye. She's hinted, more than once, that, should people find out about my, uh, proclivities, her career would be jeopardized. It's difficult for me to make her see that what she refers to as my proclivities, I think of as my fundamental essence and identity. But I understand her position. I can compromise, for her sake, but I can only compromise so much before the universe itself starts, erm, dragging me down.

I don't miss the feeling of silk or nylon against my skin; in the last year and a half, I have, at some time or other, shaved my body, worn toenail polish, "underdressed," gotten rid of my beard, etc. That's not the issue. What I miss is the chance to be out there, in public, in the gender presentation that blisses me out. The chance to be SEEN. I miss that. I do.

Oh well, there's always Second Life.

Love,
CJ

[Carol Ann]

CJ,
I do feel so sorry for you but understand the situation you are in, a big bump in the road.

Now I can relate to the feeling of not being out in public as it is also something I miss very much but life goes on.

Smile and be happy with your SO.

[SilverLady(SO)]

CJ -

I seriously don't know why you can't get dressed, get out and be SEEN in public . . . girlfriend, we all know you pass, so where's the problem?!?

I doubt that your male self would be recognized if/when CJ was seen in public with Roxanne; if necessary, Roxanne could always say that CJ is one of her best girlfriends (no lie, eh?!) and leave it at that. Is it more accurate to say the real problem is that Roxanne is hesitant or uncomfortable going out in public with CJ?

Of course, you can always get dressed and go out by yourself . . . but that's not as much fun, is it??



- SL

[KimberlyS]

Hi CJ, good to see you posting. I see a couple of things going on here that are similar to myself and I am sure to many others.

Partially understanding/accepting/tolerating spouse/SO. There is a fine often moving line between the ability to dress and pushing or stressing your SO. Basically she says you can dress but you know that it bothers her, some days and some ways more than others. An example in my case is that my wife knows I under-dress. She can feel them on me. She washes my femme clothes I have been wearing so she knows what I have been wearing. But when getting dressed and undressed and my wife seeing what I am wearing it seems to bother her more than just the knowing or seeing it in the laundry. So I try to minimize this type of exposure. Either by shifting when and where I dress or by not wearing all that I might have worn, or wearing different things, if she is there.

Second the potential affects on jobs and family of the general public knowing of the CDing. Yes some times the effects may be exagerated, but with the general public in need of a lot of education on the subject, there will be effects felt. Noting the Susan Stranton case in FL. Susan seemed to have a lot of the general public and fellow employees on her side but it seemed to make little difference in the outcome. So a public outing can bring some bad affects including effects on career.

A couple of things that I have done to CD yet work around some of this has been:

- I have learned to take some CDing time on my own with my wifes knowledge. I have taken a day or night to get out on my own or with a fellow CDer. This has included near home and out of town outings often as part of a business trip. I usually get out and do some shopping, have some meals, movie, or other activities. Just a chance for me to get out and full fill my need to show my femme mode to others.

- Both my wife and I have taken a day or two or a long weekend to get out of town together and do a mix of CDing and other things together that we both like to do. In doing this I believe I have given my wife a different view of my CDing as she is able to see the relaxing and calming affect it has on me. And secondly she has been able to get a feel on how others take my CDing when I am out. She can see that yes I get some looks and stares but also she can see the number of people that really do not see me or care if they do see me. There are no groups of people with pitch forks and torches coming after me.

Additionally something that has been helping also is talking and communicating with my spouse on how I am doing. Am I stressed. Do I need or feel a need to CD coming up. And then both of us able to work out time to CD for me that works for both of us.

So CJ do not just put off you CDing to your second life. IMHO just keeping your CDing stuffed out of sight out of mind does not work and will affect your relationship in the long run. Work with Roxanne on a solution that will work for both of you. You may be surprised at the amount and different ways and types of CDing you can do with two of you thinking of solutions.

kimberlys-cd
joe in a skirt

[Absaroka]

CJ I am not going to give any advice about should you dress or not dress or when or where or any of that because you have to figure out what works for you as opposed to what might work for me. And that of course includes how it impacts a relationship (Roxanne) that seems to work pretty well for you.

My thoughts are that this is a journey not a destination and that this is where you are right now. Things will evolve, although who knows in what direction.

I do think that it sounds like you and Roxanne try to have a lot of respect for each others feelings, needs, and sensibilities. And I think that is one of the things that makes me pay attention to what you say often.

I still keep coming back to the question (for me, maybe not for you) of how can I express my feminine side in ways that don't have to do with my appearance. In other words, how do I present myself as who I really am, in my actions and reactions to others.

Yes it is difficult to have a side to myself that is such a secret sometimes. And it is being kept a secret from someone in your case- society at large if noone else. But these forums have helped me realize that as secrets go this is pretty small potatoes really.

Absaroka

[DonnaT]

One reason I don't dress and go out where I live is my wife's worries about what the neighbors would think/say. I reckon if she were in a position where such outing would affect her employment then things would be even more difficult.

The thing is, no-one would recognize me, an I'm pretty sure, like SL says, no one would recognize you, CJ.

But I do understand your 'dilemma'.

The only thing I can suggest is what I do when/if the desire to go out gets to be too much, go somewhere else. Another city, etc.

[Sylvia H]

CJ,

If you don't find this relevant, thats ok just ignore me.

I have been CD for 50 years. But not really active till the last 2. So you might say there was a 50 year lapse in acting out who I really felt I was.

From this angle it appears what you are saying relates to our personal priorities. As I'm sure you know these can change abruptly or un-noticeably over time. For 50 years I never reached that CD "critical mass" because I was busy with things like raising children, and trying to maintain marriages, a high tech career and the like which took most of my energy.

If your beloved SO has that high a public visibility, it would appear to me that at least subconsciously you would not want to do anything to jeopardize her. In relationships, what threatens one threatens the other so to speak. So you find yourself behaving accordingly peculiar to your set of circumstances.

You and many here are fortunate to have good relationships, which I admire, something Ive always tried to obtain, but never got. If a good relationship makes you want to behave a certain way (not CDing in this case) , I say go for it. You are the best judge of what is good for you.

I cant really say a lot more than that as my situation is significantly different than most members here that do have SO's. An SO expert I am not.

Peace , Love, and Chocolate

xox
Sylvia

[CJ]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for your input.

A few things I ought to make clear:

Yes, I do love and respect and admire my SO (and I wouldn't want to work at the kind of job she does for all the gold in the world), but I also understand that love and respect and admiration can only carry me so far if these must be given through some kind of self-abnegation on my part.

I also understand (and am the first one to suggest) that life is a journey and that happiness is a process, not a destination. This I've known since my own (thankfully now distant) brushes with suicidal ideations and behaviours.

Lastly, but most importantly, Roxanne is not "the bad guy" in this situation. There are no "bad guys" here. In fact, she's been trying very hard to accommodate my femme behaviours and inclinations over the past year and a half and she's come a long way in this regard. She would simply prefer that they remain private behaviours and inclinations. Partly, I think, because she associates my CD'ing with my sexuality--to her, a private, not public, thing--and, looked at in this way, she's not wrong, I must admit. But she has yet to see the true depth of my femme feelings. I have a need to be out there, socializing as Christina. No sex involved. This is the part with which she has a bug, I believe.

Anyway, I know I'll be fine. I guess I'm just feeling a little bit whiny these days. My SAD seems to have kicked in and I cannot wait for this bubbles winter to be over. Sorry for the big word, gals. But my heart is swelling with big feelings, lately.

In case you wonder why I don't post all that much, just look back on my previous years on this board and you'll see the pattern; in winter, I build a shell around myself and sulk. I pout and damn the universe. But I always flower come springtime. Maybe I need to move closer to Lydia's neck of the woods, eh? Become a Canadian gigolo for rich ladies with brown, leathery skin. A good tip: you'll always know I'm doing alright if you see me joke and leave my trademark dubious puns lying around all over the forum pages.

Thanks for being there, ladies. And thanks, especially, to SilverLady, who gets on the blower and tracks me down like an expert hunter. You bring me out of my shell, you witchy diva! And that's a good thing!

Love,
CJ

[Curly(SO)]

Hello Miss Hibernation!

We haven't even had any snow to brighten the place up, roll on Springtime I've heard it's arriving early



I really liked KimberlyS' suggestion.

- Both my wife and I have taken a day or two or a long weekend to get out of town together and do a mix of CDing and other things together that we both like to do. In doing this I believe I have given my wife a different view of my CDing as she is able to see the relaxing and calming affect it has on me. And secondly she has been able to get a feel on how others take my CDing when I am out. She can see that yes I get some looks and stares but also she can see the number of people that really do not see me or care if they do see me. There are no groups of people with pitch forks and torches coming after me.

That sounds so cool! I am probably at a similar place as your SO. Honor and I have never been out publicly, it kind of scares us both. I think we will try this....get out of town to a place where no one knows us. (Maybe go to a Trans nightclub...safety in numbers and all that )

I don't like doing advice but hearing you say....

But she has yet to see the true depth of my femme feelings. I have a need to be out there, socializing as Christina. No sex involved. This is the part with which she has a bug, I believe.

Please, please keep talking, let her know what you need, not to put pressure on her, just so she knows you, it's only fair. She really needs to know the full extent of your CDing and you...'this is me' she needs to know that. I'm still digging away at Honor, I'm sure she hasn't told me the full extent, for fear of scaring me, to protect me, I don't know what, but she has hinted and I know there are more depths than I know about. Roxanne sounds like a cool and intelligent woman, I'm sure she can get her around it all, just needs support and reassurance. Going public is very scary, something we haven't done so I can empathise with Roxanne entirely there Please tell her I'm more than happy to chat with her, email, phone, whatever.

Love,
Curly. (Excuse edits...preview not working )

[KimberlyS]

...That sounds so cool! I am probably at a similar place as your SO. Honor and I have never been out publicly, it kind of scares us both. I think we will try this....get out of town to a place where no one knows us. (Maybe go to a Trans nightclub...safety in numbers and all that )

Curly, getting out of town when I started getting out and about enfemme worked for me. It also seem to make it easier for my wife. The first time my wife went out with Kimberly we were out of state in a large metro area 6 hours from our little home town. I also went out with the attitude of:

"it did not really matter what others thought as I would never see them again"

As for a TG friendly clubs and safety in numbers. Yes they are usually a safe place to start. But I did not start there. For me there is safety in being in a mainstream public place with a mix of people with no alcohol around. And it also builds great confidence as you go scared from one end of a mall to the other. And then when turning to go back you realize that there is no crowd of people with pitch forks and torches behind you. Yes you and/or your CDer got some looks, but they then just went on about their own business. Walking back to the other end is like walking on air.

KimberlyS-CD
joe in a skirt



Getting out and about in public enfemme is not for everyone. If you are happy staying home and that is who you are do not let me push you out. Stay there where you want. But for those that want to get out, in my experience it is a lot easier and people in the general public are a lot more accepting and/or tolerating then many in the TG community think.

[Virginia]

Isn't this GIFT just the "cats meow?" Some of us can actually have a, a, well, what can I call it?????????? Oh, how about "an out of body experience" with our alter-ego! Some of us can't seem to divorce ourselves from "her." Some could care less and yet others it like walking barefoot on broken glass!

As we have always said, we all have a place on the CD continuum, fluid or static we are there, that is a given, how we manage our "plight" well that is a totally different animal is it not!

Some of us do not have the empathy to place ourselves in one of our sister's places so the best we can do is relate what we would, could, have, will do with the only basis for reference, our own universe.

I elude to the infamous "Virginia's Challenge" where when (in the author's opinion) push comes to shove and you are backed into the proverbial corner and it's decision time. You get dressed, stand in front of that full length mirror, look that girl looking back at you right in the eye and ask and hopefully answer the two BIG questions! "What is she worth to you?" and "What are you willing to do for her happiness?" It ain't easy but then again it ain't the thing that a lot of our sisters have or will have to do!

Duck and Hide is not a bad lifestyle if that is what you want and no one here will fault anyone else for that.

In closing I will say this and it is only this girl's opinion! It is a GIFT believe it or not!!! You can learn to live with it, grow in it, love it and hopefully share it or you can die in it! It's a chess game and as long as you got a move you ain't at room temperature or in check-mate!

Go forth woman --------- and BE!!!!!

Love,

Virginia

[Stephanie H]

CJ:
The respect of the wishes that you have for Roxanne is one of the most important things to have in a relationship. It is a difficult balancing act between your desires/wants to express your femine side and having that respect. To me, the balancing act leans to ensuring the relationship with Roxanne, who I think is understanding and compasionate about you. Keep the relationship in tact and your freedoms will be able to be expressed more in the future.

[SilverLady(SO)]

And thanks, especially, to SilverLady, who gets on the blower and tracks me down like an expert hunter. You bring me out of my shell, you witchy diva! And that's a good thing!

Witchy Diva, huh? Well, yes, I am, and darn proud of it, too!




- SL

[Absaroka]

CJ does this have any relationship to getting your nipples pierced yesterday?

Absaroka

[Elizabeth]

Hi CJ,

I guess I am going to be the odd one out here, but I just don't agree with your attitude about all of this. You are not going to get a chance to come back and make yourself happy. It's not about Roxanne being a bad guy, so to speak. It's an impossible situation.

In order for your needs to be met, Christina has to come out. Not just in private, but in public. Roxanne has no objections personally, but it's also no secret that it hurts her professionally and monetarily. Because of who you are, you don't want your Crossdressing to harm anyone else, so it makes sense to you not to do it if it harms her.

But you have to do it. Which means at some future point you will. And then again. And at some other future point, it will be linked to Roxanne and it will harm her. And you don't know what to do.

When I came out of the closet, it hurt people. It hurt my kids. It hurt my family members. It hurt my friends. In fact my very best friend worries that being my best friend may hurt his business at some future point. For that reason, I pretend I don't know him on a musician forum we both belong to. Not because he asked me to, but because I don't want to cost my best friend money when he has been so supportive.

But when I picked him up at the airport, I was dressed as me. And even though he is not famous enough that someone might recognize him in public, there are circles where he would not want to be seen with me. Even though he would never shun me, even if it cost him money, we both know it's true. So I try not to put him in that position.

He recently invited me to come visit him in Wyoming and asked me if I thought it was a good idea to come dressed as a woman? He lives in a very small town where everyone knows everyone. I told him there was only one me and I understood if he withdrew his invitation.

I told him it was my plan to basically spend my visit at his house, or in a bigger city not far from where he lives where he would not be recognized, but I would be dressed as a woman. He said he didn't have an issue with it, but was afraid for my safety.

Now I have very serious reservations about visiting my best friend. I was also advised not to dress as a woman when Social Security reviewed my disability. I was told not to dress as a woman when I went to college. I was told not to take my picture as a woman on my drivers license. I was told not to take my picture as a woman for Raven's visa application.

But this is all I got. This is who I am. It took me a long time to learn it, but I have to be who I am, or I can't be at all. And everyone that has been hurt by that, I am sorry, but it's too bad. I don't have a choice. I am sure my kids, wife, best friends, brothers, sisters, classmates, all would prefer I not dress as a woman. I'm sure it sucks for my kids, and other family members. I'm sure my best friends prefer this not happen to their best friends. But it did and I can't change that. Even if I want to. My choice is to be Elizabeth. There really is not other choice.

Be who you are CJ. You will never regret that.

Love always,
Elizabeth